[Noisebridge-discuss] Closing the space/Being excellent

Sun Oct 21 17:43:35 UTC 2012

On Oct 20, 2012 11:07 PM, "Mitchel McAllister" <xonimmortal at yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
> It's not about me being kicked out.
>
> It's about nobody asking the question, "Who are we kicking out?" with any
honesty.

Apparently it's also about making gross uninformed generalizations based on
the behavior of a few people, and about disrupting a perennial conversation
that is being viewed as threatening (seriously read the list archives, we
talk about closing the space at night every 4-7 months. Then search the
archives for discussion about the homeless. Then go outside and sit in the
grass.)

I think it is possible to talk about changing our access culture, as long
as we are comfortable being verbally attacked as we do so.

If we want to talk ever about clearing humans from the space and locking
the doors, we do need to consider the logistical hurdle of doing so,
especially if one person is the last *whatever qualifications required*
present.

The only time I have ever seen noisebridge locked all the way was once two
years ago, and someone immediately had to come back and unlock it because
people's stuff was inside.

I really like having the codes be required to buzz people in, and i
volunteer to help run wires if they are needed for that project!

We could make the codes required to disable anti-sleeping booby traps
around the space! Random alarms that go off at night! Voice of Big Brother
informing all of the closing of noisebridge at the stroke of midnight?
Access badges with time-sensitive ink or electronics that have encoded
expiry dates?  Ooh, I did have a badge project I wanted to do. That would
help with people's visibility too...  Will have to search the archives...

R.

>
> Yes, I've listened to a number of members discussing who should and
shouldn't be allowed in. They weren't discussing individuals; they were
discussing populations. Entire groups of people being lumped together, as
if there are no variations or differences within those groups.
>
> Homeless people are discussed as if every single homeless person is a
thief, drug user, defecating in corners, and panhandling.
>
> People with mental illness are demonized, as if there were no spectrum of
mental illness or differing conditions, as if even a diagnosis of mild
depression denotes a propensity for mindless violence against people and
property.
>
> With these types of all-or-nothing attitudes, I'm surprised
differently-abled people are allowed in the space.
>
> What's truly amazing is that the people talking this way not only do so
loudly enough to be heard by most of the people in the space, but also
never see the incongruity of doing so under a sign that reads "Be excellent
to each other."
>
> - Reverend Mik
> ________________________________
> YMMV - a postscript that assures the world that the poster has no
intention of considering any refutation.
>
>
> --- On Sat, 10/20/12, Eric W. Rasmussen <ewr at majortek.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Eric W. Rasmussen <ewr at majortek.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Closing the space/Being excellent
>> To: "Mitchel McAllister" <xonimmortal at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> Date: Saturday, October 20, 2012, 10:20 PM
>>
>>
>> Relax. No one is going to kick you out for not being a member. If you
take ownership of NB it's as good as being a member.
>>
>> Be a leader. Be a teacher.
>>
>> On 10/20/2012 10:12 PM, Mitchel McAllister wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, the discussion right now seems to be about excluding the power
users. Either we are only allowed to be in the space when there is a public
event or we are only allowed to be here when there is a member present to
supervise us.
>>>
>>> And it is not passive aggressive to state a fact. I have been called a
troll for posting to this and other Noisebridge lists.
>>>
>>> - Reverend Mik
>>> ________________________________
>>> The greatest crime against humanity is apologizing for doing the right
thing.
>>>
>>> --- On Sat, 10/20/12, Eric W. Rasmussen <ewr at majortek.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Eric W. Rasmussen <ewr at majortek.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Closing the space/Being excellent
>>>> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> Date: Saturday, October 20, 2012, 9:44 PM
>>>>
>>>> You've made some excellent points but your last comment was passive
aggressive.
>>>>
>>>> I am not a member because I can not afford to be one. If I had $80 a
month, I would gladly give it. However, being a Power User does not exclude
me from taking on the role of Member.
>>>>
>>>> Noisebridge does not have leadership. This is a Do-ocracy.
>>>>
>>>> If you see a problem, fix it. Use the materials available. Improvise.
This is the "Maker" mantra. Credit is not due to those that perform good
deeds. No one is looked upon with a higher gratitude because they help
others.
>>>>
>>>> Noisebridge is altruism.
>>>>
>>>> If someone wants to paint and there are haters, fuck them. If someone
wants to use the kitchen and there are haters, fuck them. If someone is
giving false information, intervene. Give tours when needed.
>>>>
>>>> You love Noisebridge, right? Take ownership.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/20/2012 09:03 PM, Mitchel McAllister wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been sharing what's being discussed by a few regulars in the
space, or as Danny called us once, "power users".
>>>>>
>>>>> Understand that these are people who regularly chip in to clean up or
get things put into a semblence of order (especially after events). We wash
dishes, we take the trash out, we bring the bins back in, we sweep the
floors... We try to not make waves, we try to help out when we can. And
right now, a couple of us have been assisting Cliff in painting the space.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yet, a few minutes or an hour after we do things like this, someone
will stomp through the space, talking loudly about how "those people" need
to be kicked out because "those people" never do a damned thing around the
space.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most of the people jumping in to fix computers or other gadgets
brought in by visitors in the past two months have been "power users".
Throughout the day, evening, and night, there are often times where there
are no members present - no members to welcome newcomers, no members to
give visitors tours.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some of the other "power users" feel that they can't come to the
meetings to discuss things that are going on. They feel that they aren't
allowed to speak up, because they're not members. They feel they shouldn't
"bother" members by joining conversations.
>>>>>
>>>>> And I have heard several people giving out incorrect or misleading
information on how to become a member. "You have to collaborate on a couple
projects with real members before you're allowed to put in an application,"
has been one I've heard several times.
>>>>>
>>>>> The amount of pure shit that happens when there are no members
present, or when members are sequestered off by themselves, is alarming.
But if members don't approach visitors or "power users" and actively
solicit feedback, get involved in discussions, or at least try to get to
know them, it will continue, and probably get worse.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I know, I am considered a troll on the discussion list. And
because I am a troll, nothing I have said has any relevance or value. After
all, it's easier to dismiss me as a troll than actually consider any points
I may have made.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Reverend Mik
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> It is impossible to wage war or commit violence, unless you first
prove the other party is less human than you are. - Shane Vassad
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>
>>
>
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