[Noisebridge-discuss] A modest proposal

[rachel lyra hospodar]

On Oct 25, 2012 3:05 PM, "Martin Bogomolni" <martinbogo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I wouldn't have suggested it if I didn't think there was a point.  Your
> > question is phrased disingenuously but I'll honor its intent.
>
> You're right.  I actually didn't mean to have that negative a tone.
> The way you took it, is pretty much what I meant to say in the first
> place.  I'm getting a bit more cynical lately.

I know what you meant to say. It remains that cynical, negative, dismissive
statements are a poor start towards seeking agreement, and generally
indicate a lack of desire to actually do so.  Additionally, cause and
effect in this regard are a little fuzzy. Meaning, using cynical statements
might lead you to be more cynical later in the conversation. And vice
versa. Try this: enter every discussion with a thought experiment where you
initially assume the other person's position is correct, valuable, or
useful, and any flaws you see are a result of your misperception and
ignorance.

>
> > Membership is a social contract giving the member certain rights and
> > obligations within the noisebridge community.  Ability to fully
participate
> > in the consensus process. A sense of security against witch hunts and
oogle
> > raids. A sense of responsibility to fulfill obligations that have been
taken
> > on, including but not limited to a recurring donation.  Social
Contract. You
> > know, the power and engine of an anarchist system??
>
> Indeed.  However, the idea of volunteering time vs/ having a recurring
> donation of time spent doing something requires some kind of feedback
> mechanism.   Money is easy, because you give the money first, and then
> things X, Y, and Z happen.
>
> Volunteering instead of paying a membership due is an interesting
> proposition.   My next statement does tie into it!   The IRS _does_
> care about value and time given.  So, if someone is expected to
> perform $80/month worth of tasks, it means assigning values to tasks,
> and making sure the task is completed.   Assuming minimum wage, that's
> ~10 hours worth of volunteering.

You are assuming a far more granular relationship than I am envisioning.
More something like, eg, the role of treasurer is taken on (for a bounded
period) by a member, in exchange for the waiver of their dues. Feedback
mechanisms might relate more to acceptable fulfillment than time put in.
ROWE, anyone?  Also, take minimum wage and shove it. We want people smarter
than that.

I think it patently misses the forest for the trees to be talking about tax
law when we are deciding what we want. What we want is possible, and we can
adjust the fine print when we are at that stage of development.  I have
worked on financial models for a half dozen different organizations and am
FULLY CONFIDENT that the IrS will let us have trade memberships. As soon as
we figure out if we want them, and what the fuck they are, then I promise
to help draft the fucking documentation, to the satisfaction of Those Who
Are On The Hook and of course Consenso....

>
> > I have worked with lots of people in lots of different settings, and my
> > social science data tells me that creating a structured relationship
between
> > a person and an organization increases the persistence of that
relationship.
> > The more clearly defined the terms of that relationship are (as well as
> > being well-matched in terms of scale of commitment) the more likely the
> > relationship is to succeed.
>
> I'm in complete lockstep agreement.
>
> > I know it's a popular meme to say 'membership doesn't get you
anything!' but
> > maybe we want to rewrite this thought.  We should use our
meta-linguistic
> > programming to reinforce the algorithms we prefer. If we want our social
> > contract to have strength, we would do well to give it its due.
>
> That means giving it some hysteresis/feedback mechanism.  Actions
> leading to actual consequences.
>
> [ snip ]

Consequences? What is this, the prison planet? Membership is awesome, and
comes with awesome, valuable things - like the esteem of fellow humans and
robots.

Seriously, the esteem of the Noisebridge community is worth a fucklot to
me. I include those who have emo-quit, camped out, moved on, trolled, or
shat all over the place. I am opinionated and don't apologize for it but I
damn well care about other people's opinions too.  When they earn it.
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