[Noisebridge-discuss] Feeding the trolls

Mitchel McAllister xonimmortal at yahoo.com
Sun Sep 30 16:23:12 UTC 2012


Life is drama. Drama is life. The everyday events and circumstances of our lives is what makes up drama.

What
 is objectionable is manufactured melodrama ("OMG, I am the only person 
in history to ever be stuck in traffic evah!"). It is an attempt by one 
or more people to put themselves at the center of attention.

I 
find it somewhat ludicrous is when people gush emphatically that they 
hate drama. What they mean is they hate other people's drama; their own 
is much more important.
- Reverend Mik
"The next time someone 
says 'that's not fair', replace it with 'I'm not getting my way'... The 
entire conversation will make a lot more sense."
- Darkness Shining - Fall of Innocents
www.prismandink.com

--- On Sun, 9/30/12, rachel lyra hospodar <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:

From: rachel lyra hospodar <rachelyra at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Feeding the trolls
To: "Ever Falling" <everfalling at gmail.com>
Cc: "Mitchel McAllister" <xonimmortal at yahoo.com>, "noisebridge-discuss" <Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
Date: Sunday, September 30, 2012, 8:42 AM

Some of the false assumptions being made here are that
-talking about interpersonal conflicts in public makes them worse.
-I expect to have an impact on any particular troll
-my goals are about my own treatment or behavior directed towards me
-I actually have any specific goal at all beyond spreading information and watching its effects (as well as the general support and improvement of noisebridge)
Pointing out that the emperor is wearing no clothes, when the emperor is in almost every room, is kind of like kicking over an anthill.  I am not trolling noisebridge about feminism, and I am not enjoying a response for its own sake. To drag out my tortured metaphor, I found an anthill under the damn picnic basket.  I am pointing it out. You can freak out, ignore it, or try to help.

Noisebridge had drama before I ever showed up.  The most I've done to 'create' 'drama' was help with interpersonal conflicts, or speak honestly about my experiences. It turns out most 'drama' in noisebridge community come from a total fucking failure to communicate.

Feel free to killfile my emails. If you don't want to read them then they're probably not directed at you.
R.
On Sep 29, 2012 11:08 PM, "Ever Falling" <everfalling at gmail.com> wrote:

> When Westboro Baptist Church started their homophobic agenda, the gay community was told "Don't pay attention to them, they'll just go away."  You can see how well that worked.



> But when WBC started picketing the funerals of soldiers, synagogues, and other "normal" organizations, suddenly ignoring them wasn't an option.



People have yet to actually heed this advice. The reason you continue to see the WBC is precisely because they're being put in the spotlight (because unless they're at your front door how else do you know they're out there being idiots?). People thought "oh if only we exposed these people as the nutjobs they are and counter-protested them they'd go back in their hole." You can see how well THAT worked. It's really no secret that these people, in addition to actually believing what they say, also feed off of negativity and relish defending, and thus validating, their protests when people act out against them. One time they did a little protest tour in SF and they actually left a location early because no one was outside to react to their little hate-fest and if you ever talked to them one-on-one about anything other than religion or whatever they're screaming that week they almost immediately drop their guard and talk to you normally. But this is a bad
 analogy. You're trying to take a vocal and very public group of assholes taking their asshole selves around the country and compare them with /maybe/ one anonymous asshole who signed someone up for some automated marketing calls. Again there's no certainty that this is even the case.



Like I said before If this was about a person who we could point to and say "that person right there is being an asshole to me for these valid reasons" then i say go to it and call them out. But we're not talking about that, are we? We're talking about a supposed asshole who we have no idea who it is who chose to sign someone up for some phone calls possibly because of the victims vocal feminist views. These are super shallow grounds to be basing such an argument on about how we deal with assholes in the space not to mention even if it were true trying to hold them accountable for their little prank is like yelling into the dark of night because you thought someone knocked on the door and then ran away. If it's true then the pranksters get to hear the reaction without any of the public pressure to stop and if not you're just waking up the neighbors with your yelling. But if that's how you wanna operate then so be it. I'll remember to complain on the list
 about telemarketers because I think maybe someone here didn't like these posts I'm making now and gave the sierra club my number.



On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Mitchel McAllister <xonimmortal at yahoo.com> wrote:


--- On Sat, 9/29/12, Ever Falling <everfalling at gmail.com> wrote:





>> If the troller was pursuing a softcore patriarchal agenda, then calling them out seems appropriate.


>Why? That merely gives them attention which is the primary goal of a troll. Hence the phrase "don't feed the trolls".


When Westboro Baptist 
Church started their homophobic agenda, the gay community was told 
"Don't pay attention to them, they'll just go away."  You can see how 
well that worked.

But when WBC started picketing the funerals of 
soldiers, synagogues, and other "normal" organizations, suddenly 
ignoring them wasn't an option.

I got the same advice when one person tried to toss me out on two occasions, citing alleged complaints from alleged members. "Just ignore him."

Personally, I feel that calling 
people who engage in oppressive and denigrating behavior "trolls" only 
minimizes the appropriate reaction of those being oppressed or 
denigrated, or those who empathize with them. Ignoring someone whose behavior oppresses or denigrates others in the space only gives them permission to continue, by removing the consequences for their actions.

Using that term 
doesn't just apply to the "troll" him- or herself. It spreads to the 
entire situation, and treats the entire situation as a joke. Jokes are 
funny. They are not serious. The outcomes of jokes are funny - even when
 someone is hurt. "don't take it serious" turns into "your feelings on 
the matter aren't serious."

Currently, there are a lot of people 
feeling unsafe at, or excluded from, Noisebridge due to the constant 
denigrating from certain people. One person is constantly being targeted
 because of his medical condition. Others are experiencing frequent 
interruptions and disruptions, no matter what they are doing, because 
one person is trying to tell them what they can or cannot work on, or 
trying to press-gang them into doing what he says. Anyone who happens to be homeless at the moment is lumped in with "those people" (when at least three of the people sleeping at the space are not, in fact, homeless at all).  I've heard numerous comments about "the druggies", but alcohol and pot use is carefully excluded from that (two of the people accused are, in fact, on prescribed medications, not illicit drugs).



But this is a 
taboo subject. Standing up to oppressive behavior isn't "being 
excellent" to the oppressive party. Standing up to negative behavior is 
being oppressive to the person acting out. Holding people accountable for their behavior is oppressive, and cause-and-effect are myths inflicted on the working class by the gubbermint.



That's sarcasm, by the way, not permission to continue such behavior or attitudes. I can't give that kind of permission, but I can't remove it either. 



- Reverend Mik


    “It’s more than that,” I shrugged. “Some people, when
embracing a new perspective, or in this case dogma, go whole-hog. I really
dislike that kind of monochrome thinking.”

    “Monochrome?” Wilson asked, looking up from his drafting
board.

    “Everything is black or white,” I told him. “That’s lazy
thinking. And very prone to bigotry of all kinds. Not every round cylindrical
object is a phallic symbol, and not every effort to organize things is an
attempt to oppress the working class.”- Wizard's Callwww.prismandink.com





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