[Noisebridge-discuss] Feeding the trolls

Sun Sep 30 15:42:54 UTC 2012

Some of the false assumptions being made here are that

-talking about interpersonal conflicts in public makes them worse.

-I expect to have an impact on any particular troll

-my goals are about my own treatment or behavior directed towards me

-I actually have any specific goal at all beyond spreading information and
watching its effects (as well as the general support and improvement of
noisebridge)

Pointing out that the emperor is wearing no clothes, when the emperor is in
almost every room, is kind of like kicking over an anthill.  I am not
trolling noisebridge about feminism, and I am not enjoying a response for
its own sake. To drag out my tortured metaphor, I found an anthill under
the damn picnic basket.  I am pointing it out. You can freak out, ignore
it, or try to help.

Noisebridge had drama before I ever showed up.  The most I've done to
'create' 'drama' was help with interpersonal conflicts, or speak honestly
about my experiences. It turns out most 'drama' in noisebridge community
come from a total fucking failure to communicate.

Feel free to killfile my emails. If you don't want to read them then
they're probably not directed at you.

R.
On Sep 29, 2012 11:08 PM, "Ever Falling" <everfalling at gmail.com> wrote:

> > When Westboro Baptist Church started their homophobic agenda, the gay
> community was told "Don't pay attention to them, they'll just go away."
> You can see how well that worked.
>
> > But when WBC started picketing the funerals of soldiers, synagogues, and
> other "normal" organizations, suddenly ignoring them wasn't an option.
>
> People have yet to actually heed this advice. The reason you continue to
> see the WBC is precisely because they're being put in the spotlight
> (because unless they're at your front door how else do you know they're out
> there being idiots?). People thought "oh if only we exposed these people as
> the nutjobs they are and counter-protested them they'd go back in their
> hole." You can see how well THAT worked. It's really no secret that these
> people, in addition to actually believing what they say, also feed off of
> negativity and relish defending, and thus validating, their protests when
> people act out against them. One time they did a little protest tour in SF
> and they actually left a location early because no one was outside to react
> to their little hate-fest and if you ever talked to them one-on-one about
> anything other than religion or whatever they're screaming that week they
> almost immediately drop their guard and talk to you normally. But this is a
> bad analogy. You're trying to take a vocal and very public group of
> assholes taking their asshole selves around the country and compare them
> with /maybe/ one anonymous asshole who signed someone up for some automated
> marketing calls. Again there's no certainty that this is even the case.
>
> Like I said before If this was about a person who we could point to and
> say "that person right there is being an asshole to me for these valid
> reasons" then i say go to it and call them out. But we're not talking about
> that, are we? We're talking about a supposed asshole who we have no idea
> who it is who chose to sign someone up for some phone calls possibly
> because of the victims vocal feminist views. These are super shallow
> grounds to be basing such an argument on about how we deal with assholes in
> the space not to mention even if it were true trying to hold them
> accountable for their little prank is like yelling into the dark of night
> because you thought someone knocked on the door and then ran away. If it's
> true then the pranksters get to hear the reaction without any of the public
> pressure to stop and if not you're just waking up the neighbors with your
> yelling. But if that's how you wanna operate then so be it. I'll remember
> to complain on the list about telemarketers because I think maybe someone
> here didn't like these posts I'm making now and gave the sierra club my
> number.
>
> On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Mitchel McAllister <
> xonimmortal at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> --- On *Sat, 9/29/12, Ever Falling <everfalling at gmail.com>* wrote:
>>
>>
>> >> If the troller was pursuing a softcore patriarchal agenda, then
>> calling them out seems appropriate.
>>
>> >Why? That merely gives them attention which is the primary goal of a
>> troll. Hence the phrase "don't feed the trolls".
>>
>>
>> When Westboro Baptist Church started their homophobic agenda, the gay
>> community was told "Don't pay attention to them, they'll just go away."
>> You can see how well that worked.
>>
>> But when WBC started picketing the funerals of soldiers, synagogues, and
>> other "normal" organizations, suddenly ignoring them wasn't an option.
>>
>> I got the same advice when one person tried to toss me out on two
>> occasions, citing alleged complaints from alleged members. "Just ignore
>> him."
>>
>> Personally, I feel that calling people who engage in oppressive and
>> denigrating behavior "trolls" only minimizes the appropriate reaction of
>> those being oppressed or denigrated, or those who empathize with them.
>> Ignoring someone whose behavior oppresses or denigrates others in the space
>> only gives them permission to continue, by removing the consequences for
>> their actions.
>>
>> Using that term doesn't just apply to the "troll" him- or herself. It
>> spreads to the entire situation, and treats the entire situation as a joke.
>> Jokes are funny. They are not serious. The outcomes of jokes are funny -
>> even when someone is hurt. "don't take it serious" turns into "your
>> feelings on the matter aren't serious."
>>
>> Currently, there are a lot of people feeling unsafe at, or excluded from,
>> Noisebridge due to the constant denigrating from certain people. One person
>> is constantly being targeted because of his medical condition. Others are
>> experiencing frequent interruptions and disruptions, no matter what they
>> are doing, because one person is trying to tell them what they can or
>> cannot work on, or trying to press-gang them into doing what he says.
>> Anyone who happens to be homeless at the moment is lumped in with "those
>> people" (when at least three of the people sleeping at the space are not,
>> in fact, homeless at all).  I've heard numerous comments about "the
>> druggies", but alcohol and pot use is carefully excluded from that (two of
>> the people accused are, in fact, on prescribed medications, not illicit
>> drugs).
>>
>> But this is a taboo subject. Standing up to oppressive behavior isn't
>> "being excellent" to the oppressive party. Standing up to negative behavior
>> is being oppressive to the person acting out. Holding people accountable
>> for their behavior is oppressive, and cause-and-effect are myths inflicted
>> on the working class by the gubbermint.
>>
>> That's sarcasm, by the way, not permission to continue such behavior or
>> attitudes. I can't give that kind of permission, but I can't remove it
>> either.
>>
>> - Reverend Mik
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>     “It’s more than that,” I shrugged. “Some people, when embracing a new
>> perspective, or in this case dogma, go whole-hog. I really dislike that
>> kind of monochrome thinking.”
>>
>>     “Monochrome?” Wilson asked, looking up from his drafting board.
>>
>>     “Everything is black or white,” I told him. “That’s lazy thinking.
>> And very prone to bigotry of all kinds. Not every round cylindrical object
>> is a phallic symbol, and not every effort to organize things is an attempt
>> to oppress the working class.”
>>
>> - Wizard's Call
>>
>> www.prismandink.com
>>
>>
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>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>
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