[Noisebridge-discuss] Fwd: Some interesting thoughts on "benevolent sexism"
Eddan Katz
eddan at eddan.com
Sat Apr 6 17:39:06 UTC 2013
Thanks, Liz. I've been trying to work through Lewis' Law, generally and not specifically to Donglegate.
While not exactly tautological, my head is still spinning. I think the resulting headache has less to do with feminism and more to do with who gets to decide what is inherently self-justifying. Trump card power in self-righteous hands is a stone's throw away from political manipulation.
Here's another riddle: "Here comes the new boss, same as the old boss."
sent from eddan.com
On Apr 6, 2013, at 9:39 AM, Liz Henry <lizhenry at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah once again we see Lewis's Law in evidence: The comments on any article about feminism justify feminism.
>
> I can't even.
>
> - liz
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Christoph Maier <cm.hardware.software.elsewhere at gmail.com> wrote:
>> A wonderful thread!
>>
>> It reminds me that you all are very good at creating Chaos (that's why I need a dose of noisebridge every now and then),
>> but ranking who is best at it may be sexist, benevolently or not.
>> So I should probably talk about python instead.
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUBAx8jbYNs
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 8:33 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> In the early 1990s internet relay was new and
>>> getting popular. Among the newly interested were
>>> those with little video cams attached to their
>>> computers (think male in bathrobe at cam).
>>> I submitted a writeup of something I discovered
>>> in the IRC sex crowd to what was then my second
>>> favorite web site (my first was paranoia.com, which
>>> went extinct, the domain name repurposed by some
>>> commercial entity, nothing like the original);
>>> anyway, I got lots of laughs reading the various
>>> Heartless Bitches pages and am proud that they
>>> used and have kept my submission (circa 1993):
>>>
>>> http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/hotgirl.shtml
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 2013-04-05 at 21:16 -0700, Naomi Most wrote:
>>> > Heh, now you know something of how a lot of us women felt when getting
>>> > on the internet a decade or more ago (and for many, even still). I
>>> > have been using neutral-gender online handles since 1995.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --Naomi aka nthmost aka venix aka 101101 ...
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Garrett Mace <garrettmace at gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > I'm not happy with the risk that anyone might confuse me with
>>> > Garrett Smith, since it appears we have some major differences
>>> > in many viewpoints despite having the same uncommon first
>>> > name. I am going to come up with a pseudonym to use on this
>>> > list as I'm no longer comfortable using my own.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --- Garrett Mace, (non-jerk)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Apr 5, 2013, at 4:22 PM, Lyra <elevin at MIT.EDU> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > Naomi, you are of course welcome to keep fighting with him.
>>> > > I just don't find that fun or useful, so I won't.
>>> > >
>>> > > Rachel Lyra! Very true. That being said, we can (and should)
>>> > > work to improve ourselves and our world simultaneously. It
>>> > > seems there are different hosts benevolent (or not so)
>>> > > sexism may reside in and different ways to combat it in each
>>> > > case.
>>> > >
>>> > > For ourselves, the hard part is noticing. This would be made
>>> > > far easier if it were more socially okay for people to call
>>> > > us out on such behavior. For example, a friend mentioned to
>>> > > me that when I used the word 'dick' for a mean person, I was
>>> > > reinforcing the idea of men being synonymous with jerks. I'm
>>> > > glad he was comfortable with telling me that, as it gave me
>>> > > the opportunity to change my behavior in some small,
>>> > > positive way.
>>> > >
>>> > > Rational people whose opinions we care about can be reasoned
>>> > > with and irrational people who's opinions carry no personal
>>> > > value can be ignored. But what about people who hold these
>>> > > beliefs unreasonably and for some reason, their opinion must
>>> > > be worked around (policy makers, cultural leaders, teachers,
>>> > > bosses, investors...)?
>>> > >
>>> > > Lyra Rachel Levin
>>> > >
>>> > > Sent en route, pardon the brevity.
>>> > >
>>> > > On Apr 5, 2013 4:07 PM, "rachel lyra hospodar"
>>> > > <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > > Thanks for this, Lyra! I think there are a bunch of
>>> > > good ways to move forward on issues of embedded
>>> > > sexist behaviors. Ultimately the question of what
>>> > > to do next depends on who the speaker is. We all
>>> > > have work we can do within ourselves, and the old
>>> > > advice about tending to the beam in one's own eye
>>> > > first rings pretty true here. Sometimes I think the
>>> > > most fruitful thing for most of us to do is to
>>> > > encourage the normalization of a critical analysis
>>> > > and discussion of these issues, as a normal and
>>> > > rational part of public discourse.
>>> > >
>>> > > R.
>>> > >
>>> > > On 4/5/2013 4:01 PM, Lyra wrote:
>>> > > So I tend to just write off people like
>>> > > Garrett Smith - their opinion is
>>> > > not useful or valid to me so why waste
>>> > > cycles feeding the trolls?
>>> > > However, Merlin's link on Stereotype Threat
>>> > > clarified what is bad about
>>> > > that behavior. This isn't a small, vocal,
>>> > > but ultimately powerless group
>>> > > that thinks this way. This is a lot of
>>> > > people, some very intelligent,
>>> > > some very powerful.
>>> > >
>>> > > Instead of bothering with this fruitless
>>> > > argument with Garrett, let's
>>> > > look at ways we can combat the source of the
>>> > > problem. Calling people out
>>> > > on unnoticed bad behavior is one way. Pro
>>> > > active and empowering
>>> > > education opportunities are an excellent one
>>> > > too (for adults and
>>> > > especially for children). Further thoughts?
>>> > >
>>> > > Lyra
>>> > >
>>> > > Sent en route, pardon the brevity.
>>> > >
>>> > > On Apr 5, 2013 3:46 PM, "Danny O'Brien"
>>> > > <danny at spesh.com
>>> > > <mailto:danny at spesh.com>> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> > > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> > > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> > > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> > > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Naomi Theora Most
>>> > naomi at nthmost.com
>>> > +1-415-728-7490
>>> >
>>> > skype: nthmost
>>> >
>>> > http://twitter.com/nthmost
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
>
> --
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> Liz Henry
> lhenry at mozilla.com
> lizhenry at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20130406/38d9f361/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the Noisebridge-discuss
mailing list