[Noisebridge-discuss] Extremely sketchy event w/ bikes just now

Ken M. Haggerty kenmhaggerty at gmail.com
Thu Apr 11 23:48:35 UTC 2013


If we have such idiotic policies in place then I will certainly cease to be
a part of Noisebridge.
-Ken


On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 4:35 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thats cool.  People like you are more harmful.  They are able to handle
> things like, I don't know, getting stabbed/shot.  Or maybe a hostage
> situation.  Or a Rape.  Or a murder.  Seriously, have some type of common
> sense when dealing with them.  Sometimes they are better at handling
> certain situations.  I understand that they sometimes do things that are
> ffed up (like at JHP during occupy - i was there some)  But they are not
> all 100% bad 100% of the time and sadly, Noisebridge is not qualified to
> handle a variety of situations (See the ones above).   A healthy dose of
> common sense is required for dealing with the police but saying NO POLICE
> ever is just asking for trouble, as with any other blanket statement about
> ANYTHING.  Please stop suggesting this type of silly advice.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 4:28 PM, maestro <maestro415 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > police are not all bad all of the time
>>
>> *yes. they are.
>>
>> >Please do not suggest things that are harmful to the community and the
>> space.
>>
>> *'they'(police) are harmful to every community thus this includes and is
>> microcosmic to a hackerspace and/or anywhere else free and open...
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> What.  This is a HUGE problem.  I have major issues with this since the
>>> community is unable to police itself.  This is DANGEROUS.   We have had
>>> some issues in the past, like Susan getting sexually assaulted at a
>>> hackmeet where it would have been prudent to call the police.  Or when
>>> Shawn (spelling) L, was in the space.   This is just plain dangerous.
>>>  Please do not suggest things that are harmful to the community and the
>>> space.
>>>
>>> A better suggestion would be to let them in but let them know that they
>>> can and WILL be recorded from the second they come in and then do so.
>>> Again, police are not all bad all of the time especially since we are
>>> unable to police ourselves.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:32 PM, maestro <maestro415 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> NEVER let the police pass the downstairs locked door.
>>>> if you can, have someone stay downstairs that can keep them out and
>>>> door shut.
>>>> if people involved in incident need to go in and out have the person
>>>> let them in and out saying out loud "WE ARE NOT letting any police in"
>>>> (they will do everything they can to get inside) and they aren't allowed to
>>>> come in (great to have on film if they do).
>>>>
>>>> IF they have to be called (which should be EXTREMELY RARE), make them
>>>> wait outside as in the example of the bikes or other theft it is NOT theft
>>>> until it LEAVES the property (same as retail stores) and you can open the
>>>> space to law suits.
>>>>
>>>> you also NEVER want to let the police in because as soon as you do,
>>>> they can say they were let in and have more leverage to do lots of other
>>>> shit in the space that isn't even related to the call.
>>>>
>>>> for documentation for NB to have:
>>>> ~ get the CAD number from the dispatcher on the phone
>>>> ~ get the dispatcher name and badge #
>>>> ~ get the names and badge #'s of ALL cops that arrive (and car #'s)
>>>> ~ whenever possible film the whole time with audio making sure to get
>>>> ALL their faces as well
>>>>
>>>> if 'someone' lets them in, make them stay in one spot at the door(top)
>>>> not walk around.
>>>> if they try to walk around say "what are you doing? nothing happened
>>>> over there please talk to us HERE (door-top)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> message ends
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 8:41 AM, Sai <i at s.ai> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I would strongly advise against "donating" any abandoned bikes. You do
>>>>> not own them; that would be considered theft until the time for
>>>>> reclaiming them runs out officially, which can be years. (I tried
>>>>> looking through CA law just now to figure out what period applies, and
>>>>> it's not clear.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Turn them over to the police instead. I think they give you the option
>>>>> of "I want to have it if it's unclaimed".
>>>>>
>>>>> While we're at it: register your bikes with the police, so that your
>>>>> bike does get turned in, they call you. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> jof: The bikes did not seem to be locked when he removed them. One
>>>>> person thought he saw the person unchain a bike (presumably using a
>>>>> key), but wasn't sure about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nick: We weren't sure enough that they *weren't* his to physically
>>>>> stop him from taking them. The only other legal option would have been
>>>>> to call the police immediately, delay him from taking the bikes, and
>>>>> have them sort out ownership. My guess is that he'd've been arrested
>>>>> for drug somethingorother had police been called. We had about 30
>>>>> seconds to decide what to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Sai
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 8:17 AM, Ben Kochie <superq at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> > I think I am going to start putting date stamp tags on bikes that
>>>>> look
>>>>> > abandoned after the Tuesday meetings. Bikes that have not moved will
>>>>> be
>>>>> > photographed and removed at the next meeting. They will be donated
>>>>> to the
>>>>> > bike kitchen.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Apr 10, 2013 8:38 PM, "Sai" <i at s.ai> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Someone who seemed to be significantly disturbed (tweaking?) was
>>>>> just
>>>>> >> hustled out of Noisebridge and asked not to return except at a
>>>>> >> meeting.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> He took with him several bikes that he claimed to have been working
>>>>> >> on. We're not sure whether they were in fact his, or whether he just
>>>>> >> stole them.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Here's short video of him leaving: http://youtu.be/r1hGw_dL90Q(sorry
>>>>> >> I didn't get better footage).
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> 1. If you can confirm who owns the bikes in the video, or who the
>>>>> >> person is, please speak up.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> 2. If you are storing your bike at Noisebridge, please lock it, and
>>>>> >> please label it prominently with your name.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> 3. Please don't store your bike at Noisebridge for long periods of
>>>>> >> time, or we will probably think it's abandoned property.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> When something like this happens, we have very little time to decide
>>>>> >> how to respond appropriately.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> It would be very helpful for us to have an easy way whom a bike
>>>>> >> belongs to, so that we know whether we're dealing with a thief (in
>>>>> >> which case I would call the police to make an arrest) vs someone
>>>>> who's
>>>>> >> just being a dick with the space (in which case I think it's
>>>>> >> appropriate to ask them to leave).
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Thanks,
>>>>> >> - Sai
>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> *~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...*
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ronald Cotoni
>>> Systems Engineer
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...*
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Ronald Cotoni
> Systems Engineer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
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