[Noisebridge-discuss] Extremely sketchy event w/ bikes just now

Thu Apr 11 23:50:44 UTC 2013

I am sorry you feel this way but let's try to come up with a solution
somewhere in the middle, with a bit of common sense and communication.  I
bet we can come up with something amazing!

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Ken M. Haggerty <kenmhaggerty at gmail.com>wrote:

> If we have such idiotic policies in place then I will certainly cease to
> be a part of Noisebridge.
> -Ken
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 4:35 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thats cool.  People like you are more harmful.  They are able to handle
>> things like, I don't know, getting stabbed/shot.  Or maybe a hostage
>> situation.  Or a Rape.  Or a murder.  Seriously, have some type of common
>> sense when dealing with them.  Sometimes they are better at handling
>> certain situations.  I understand that they sometimes do things that are
>> ffed up (like at JHP during occupy - i was there some)  But they are not
>> all 100% bad 100% of the time and sadly, Noisebridge is not qualified to
>> handle a variety of situations (See the ones above).   A healthy dose of
>> common sense is required for dealing with the police but saying NO POLICE
>> ever is just asking for trouble, as with any other blanket statement about
>> ANYTHING.  Please stop suggesting this type of silly advice.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 4:28 PM, maestro <maestro415 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> > police are not all bad all of the time
>>>
>>> *yes. they are.
>>>
>>> >Please do not suggest things that are harmful to the community and the
>>> space.
>>>
>>> *'they'(police) are harmful to every community thus this includes and is
>>> microcosmic to a hackerspace and/or anywhere else free and open...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:46 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> What.  This is a HUGE problem.  I have major issues with this since the
>>>> community is unable to police itself.  This is DANGEROUS.   We have had
>>>> some issues in the past, like Susan getting sexually assaulted at a
>>>> hackmeet where it would have been prudent to call the police.  Or when
>>>> Shawn (spelling) L, was in the space.   This is just plain dangerous.
>>>>  Please do not suggest things that are harmful to the community and the
>>>> space.
>>>>
>>>> A better suggestion would be to let them in but let them know that they
>>>> can and WILL be recorded from the second they come in and then do so.
>>>> Again, police are not all bad all of the time especially since we are
>>>> unable to police ourselves.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:32 PM, maestro <maestro415 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> NEVER let the police pass the downstairs locked door.
>>>>> if you can, have someone stay downstairs that can keep them out and
>>>>> door shut.
>>>>> if people involved in incident need to go in and out have the person
>>>>> let them in and out saying out loud "WE ARE NOT letting any police in"
>>>>> (they will do everything they can to get inside) and they aren't allowed to
>>>>> come in (great to have on film if they do).
>>>>>
>>>>> IF they have to be called (which should be EXTREMELY RARE), make them
>>>>> wait outside as in the example of the bikes or other theft it is NOT theft
>>>>> until it LEAVES the property (same as retail stores) and you can open the
>>>>> space to law suits.
>>>>>
>>>>> you also NEVER want to let the police in because as soon as you do,
>>>>> they can say they were let in and have more leverage to do lots of other
>>>>> shit in the space that isn't even related to the call.
>>>>>
>>>>> for documentation for NB to have:
>>>>> ~ get the CAD number from the dispatcher on the phone
>>>>> ~ get the dispatcher name and badge #
>>>>> ~ get the names and badge #'s of ALL cops that arrive (and car #'s)
>>>>> ~ whenever possible film the whole time with audio making sure to get
>>>>> ALL their faces as well
>>>>>
>>>>> if 'someone' lets them in, make them stay in one spot at the door(top)
>>>>> not walk around.
>>>>> if they try to walk around say "what are you doing? nothing happened
>>>>> over there please talk to us HERE (door-top)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> message ends
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 8:41 AM, Sai <i at s.ai> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I would strongly advise against "donating" any abandoned bikes. You do
>>>>>> not own them; that would be considered theft until the time for
>>>>>> reclaiming them runs out officially, which can be years. (I tried
>>>>>> looking through CA law just now to figure out what period applies, and
>>>>>> it's not clear.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Turn them over to the police instead. I think they give you the option
>>>>>> of "I want to have it if it's unclaimed".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While we're at it: register your bikes with the police, so that your
>>>>>> bike does get turned in, they call you. ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> jof: The bikes did not seem to be locked when he removed them. One
>>>>>> person thought he saw the person unchain a bike (presumably using a
>>>>>> key), but wasn't sure about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nick: We weren't sure enough that they *weren't* his to physically
>>>>>> stop him from taking them. The only other legal option would have been
>>>>>> to call the police immediately, delay him from taking the bikes, and
>>>>>> have them sort out ownership. My guess is that he'd've been arrested
>>>>>> for drug somethingorother had police been called. We had about 30
>>>>>> seconds to decide what to do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Sai
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 8:17 AM, Ben Kochie <superq at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> > I think I am going to start putting date stamp tags on bikes that
>>>>>> look
>>>>>> > abandoned after the Tuesday meetings. Bikes that have not moved
>>>>>> will be
>>>>>> > photographed and removed at the next meeting. They will be donated
>>>>>> to the
>>>>>> > bike kitchen.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Apr 10, 2013 8:38 PM, "Sai" <i at s.ai> wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Someone who seemed to be significantly disturbed (tweaking?) was
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> >> hustled out of Noisebridge and asked not to return except at a
>>>>>> >> meeting.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> He took with him several bikes that he claimed to have been working
>>>>>> >> on. We're not sure whether they were in fact his, or whether he
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> >> stole them.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Here's short video of him leaving: http://youtu.be/r1hGw_dL90Q(sorry
>>>>>> >> I didn't get better footage).
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> 1. If you can confirm who owns the bikes in the video, or who the
>>>>>> >> person is, please speak up.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> 2. If you are storing your bike at Noisebridge, please lock it, and
>>>>>> >> please label it prominently with your name.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> 3. Please don't store your bike at Noisebridge for long periods of
>>>>>> >> time, or we will probably think it's abandoned property.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> When something like this happens, we have very little time to
>>>>>> decide
>>>>>> >> how to respond appropriately.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> It would be very helpful for us to have an easy way whom a bike
>>>>>> >> belongs to, so that we know whether we're dealing with a thief (in
>>>>>> >> which case I would call the police to make an arrest) vs someone
>>>>>> who's
>>>>>> >> just being a dick with the space (in which case I think it's
>>>>>> >> appropriate to ask them to leave).
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Thanks,
>>>>>> >> - Sai
>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> *~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...*
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ronald Cotoni
>>>> Systems Engineer
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...*
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ronald Cotoni
>> Systems Engineer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>

-- 
Ronald Cotoni
Systems Engineer
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