[Noisebridge-discuss] Who do we want to exclude? [Drama]

Sun Apr 14 05:35:01 UTC 2013

I was venting. Went a little overboard no doubt; still, I'm not completely
taking back what I said. I think some response to my lengthier, more
balanced post last night - "To the hackers who lament Noisebridge turning
into an art space" - would be appropriate, & I have yet to see any. This
could surely flourish into an interesting, civil discussion. (Or otherwise.)

On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 8:38 PM, Nameless <name1355 at tormail.org> wrote:

> I think there is some merit in what Robert has said. I see a person who is
> upset about the chaos and conflict that can arise in an environment that
> welcomes anyone and everyone. Since the nature and the mission of
> Noisebridge isn't likely to change (nor should it), it makes sense to have
> someone present who is dedicated to handling these potential conflicts.
> This will place the burden on willing members only.
>
> There is one primary rule at Noisebridge. It just makes sense to have
> someone dedicated to facilitating this rule.  "Excellence Facilitator"
>
> - Nameless
>
> > You know, when discussing why people do or don't inhabit the space, I
> > don't
> > think it's terribly productive to categorically exclude the views of the
> > people who choose not to be part of it anymore. Moreso to deride them
> with
> > ad hominem attacks on their mental fortitude for their unwillingness to
> > spend time in an environment where they don't feel safe or supported.
> > Being one of the aforementioned myself I kind of doubt there's any
> benefit
> > to my speaking up, so I'm not sure why I feel the need.
> >
> > I spent a couple of years as a relatively active participant at
> > Noisebridge, including teaching a class there for nearly a year, before
> > deciding it wasn't for me, and have since been lurking on the list and
> > seeing it go through the same cycles time and again. New people enter the
> > community, work hard to make it better, speak up, get shouted down, and
> > then quietly disappear again.
> >
> > Teaching my class was a pain because every time I would come in I had to
> > rearrange the classroom, kick out whatever surly creatures happened to be
> > sleeping there, wipe the gunk of the tables, scrounge for a working
> > projector, and then teach between shrieks of the wood shop equipment.
> > Students didn't have a very long shelf life either, as they often didn't
> > feel comfortable being in the space, especially the women. And I've
> > encountered a wide array of disillusioned former Noisebridgers since. One
> > fellow I met had built out a full on electronics workshop in his bedroom
> > to
> > fill the void.
> >
> > All of this is sort of a roundabout way of getting to this point:
> *Anarchy
> > is a form of entropy*. As long as there are no rules, consequences or
> > governance in the space these things are not going to change. As long as
> > you're willing to unconditionally open your doors to everybody, the worst
> > will come in, use up the resources, and drive out many of the best. This
> > isn't to disparage all of you who are still there, as I know there are
> > still a number of very excellent people who frequent Noisebridge, but you
> > have a much greater tolerance for conflict and chaos than myself or many
> > of the others I've talked to. It surprises me that in a space that is so
> > focused on programming, where you write rules for how computers should
> > behave, that people think they can somehow take a "monkeys bashing at
> > keyboards" approach to culture and expect anything but white noise to
> come
> > from it.
> >
> > Anyway, I guess that's about all I've got for now.
> >
> > - Robert
> > On Apr 13, 2013 11:49 AM, "Tony Longshanks LeTigre" <
> > anthonyletigre at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Fucking annoying to hear all these people who never come around
> >> Noisebridge whining about all the problems it has, if ya ask me. Oh
> >> really?
> >> I spend a lot of time here, & don't see all the problems you're
> >> describing.
> >> Well, I do see some of them, but what I see is the people who have the
> >> fortitude to deal with conflict & care enough to really invest
> >> themselves
> >> in the space deal with those problems, & the problem people who cause
> >> them,
> >> rather than just giving up & pissing off.
> >>
> >> +11+
> >>
> >> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 10:35 AM, <name1355 at tormail.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> If by, "transients", you mean homeless people, why is it a, "problem"?
> >>> Perhaps if they were embraced instead of avoided, you might find they
> >>> can
> >>> make valid contributions to Noisebridge.
> >>>
> >>> > You were a n00b once too. How do we get hackers? By allowing curious
> >>> n00bs
> >>> > to learn stuff.   I agree with the other stuff though.
> >>> > On Apr 13, 2013 4:54 AM, "Eric W. Rasmussen" <ewr at majortek.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> I have been excluded. I have very serious issues with NB that are
> >>> being
> >>> >> discussed NOW.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I may not be the best Linux teacher in the world, but I tried. When
> >>> the
> >>> >> doorbell rang, I answered it. I cleaned. I dropped money in the box.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> NB has a very serious sexual harassment problem. NB has a problem
> >>> with
> >>> >> transients. NB has a problem with n00bs. Ultimately, NB has
> >>> >> interpersonal
> >>> >> problems.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Please fix this. I would like to return.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Thank you
> >>> >>
> >>> >> ewr
> >>> >> ______________________________**_________________
> >>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.**noisebridge.net<
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> >>> >>
> https://www.noisebridge.net/**mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-**discuss<
> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss>
> >>> >>
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
> - Nameless
>
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