[Noisebridge-discuss] Who do we want to exclude? [Drama]

Ronald Cotoni setient at gmail.com
Sun Apr 14 07:50:31 UTC 2013


I too agree with what Robert said.  Many have noticed my absence from the
space, it is for similar reasons.  I will be visiting noisebridge but it
will be only if I need the tools for something and then I will get out.  I
was on another hacker space list today.  There was almost EQUAL DRAMA.
 What a shock.


On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 10:35 PM, Tony Longshanks LeTigre <
anthonyletigre at gmail.com> wrote:

> I was venting. Went a little overboard no doubt; still, I'm not completely
> taking back what I said. I think some response to my lengthier, more
> balanced post last night - "To the hackers who lament Noisebridge turning
> into an art space" - would be appropriate, & I have yet to see any. This
> could surely flourish into an interesting, civil discussion. (Or otherwise.)
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 8:38 PM, Nameless <name1355 at tormail.org> wrote:
>
>> I think there is some merit in what Robert has said. I see a person who is
>> upset about the chaos and conflict that can arise in an environment that
>> welcomes anyone and everyone. Since the nature and the mission of
>> Noisebridge isn't likely to change (nor should it), it makes sense to have
>> someone present who is dedicated to handling these potential conflicts.
>> This will place the burden on willing members only.
>>
>> There is one primary rule at Noisebridge. It just makes sense to have
>> someone dedicated to facilitating this rule.  "Excellence Facilitator"
>>
>> - Nameless
>>
>> > You know, when discussing why people do or don't inhabit the space, I
>> > don't
>> > think it's terribly productive to categorically exclude the views of the
>> > people who choose not to be part of it anymore. Moreso to deride them
>> with
>> > ad hominem attacks on their mental fortitude for their unwillingness to
>> > spend time in an environment where they don't feel safe or supported.
>> > Being one of the aforementioned myself I kind of doubt there's any
>> benefit
>> > to my speaking up, so I'm not sure why I feel the need.
>> >
>> > I spent a couple of years as a relatively active participant at
>> > Noisebridge, including teaching a class there for nearly a year, before
>> > deciding it wasn't for me, and have since been lurking on the list and
>> > seeing it go through the same cycles time and again. New people enter
>> the
>> > community, work hard to make it better, speak up, get shouted down, and
>> > then quietly disappear again.
>> >
>> > Teaching my class was a pain because every time I would come in I had to
>> > rearrange the classroom, kick out whatever surly creatures happened to
>> be
>> > sleeping there, wipe the gunk of the tables, scrounge for a working
>> > projector, and then teach between shrieks of the wood shop equipment.
>> > Students didn't have a very long shelf life either, as they often didn't
>> > feel comfortable being in the space, especially the women. And I've
>> > encountered a wide array of disillusioned former Noisebridgers since.
>> One
>> > fellow I met had built out a full on electronics workshop in his bedroom
>> > to
>> > fill the void.
>> >
>> > All of this is sort of a roundabout way of getting to this point:
>> *Anarchy
>> > is a form of entropy*. As long as there are no rules, consequences or
>> > governance in the space these things are not going to change. As long as
>> > you're willing to unconditionally open your doors to everybody, the
>> worst
>> > will come in, use up the resources, and drive out many of the best. This
>> > isn't to disparage all of you who are still there, as I know there are
>> > still a number of very excellent people who frequent Noisebridge, but
>> you
>> > have a much greater tolerance for conflict and chaos than myself or many
>> > of the others I've talked to. It surprises me that in a space that is so
>> > focused on programming, where you write rules for how computers should
>> > behave, that people think they can somehow take a "monkeys bashing at
>> > keyboards" approach to culture and expect anything but white noise to
>> come
>> > from it.
>> >
>> > Anyway, I guess that's about all I've got for now.
>> >
>> > - Robert
>> > On Apr 13, 2013 11:49 AM, "Tony Longshanks LeTigre" <
>> > anthonyletigre at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Fucking annoying to hear all these people who never come around
>> >> Noisebridge whining about all the problems it has, if ya ask me. Oh
>> >> really?
>> >> I spend a lot of time here, & don't see all the problems you're
>> >> describing.
>> >> Well, I do see some of them, but what I see is the people who have the
>> >> fortitude to deal with conflict & care enough to really invest
>> >> themselves
>> >> in the space deal with those problems, & the problem people who cause
>> >> them,
>> >> rather than just giving up & pissing off.
>> >>
>> >> +11+
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 10:35 AM, <name1355 at tormail.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> If by, "transients", you mean homeless people, why is it a, "problem"?
>> >>> Perhaps if they were embraced instead of avoided, you might find they
>> >>> can
>> >>> make valid contributions to Noisebridge.
>> >>>
>> >>> > You were a n00b once too. How do we get hackers? By allowing curious
>> >>> n00bs
>> >>> > to learn stuff.   I agree with the other stuff though.
>> >>> > On Apr 13, 2013 4:54 AM, "Eric W. Rasmussen" <ewr at majortek.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> I have been excluded. I have very serious issues with NB that are
>> >>> being
>> >>> >> discussed NOW.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> I may not be the best Linux teacher in the world, but I tried. When
>> >>> the
>> >>> >> doorbell rang, I answered it. I cleaned. I dropped money in the
>> box.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> NB has a very serious sexual harassment problem. NB has a problem
>> >>> with
>> >>> >> transients. NB has a problem with n00bs. Ultimately, NB has
>> >>> >> interpersonal
>> >>> >> problems.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Please fix this. I would like to return.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Thank you
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> ewr
>> >>> >> ______________________________**_________________
>> >>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.**noisebridge.net<
>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>> >>> >>
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/**mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-**discuss<
>> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> - Nameless
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>


-- 
Ronald Cotoni
Systems Engineer
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20130414/78d3b807/attachment-0003.html>


More information about the Noisebridge-discuss mailing list