[Noisebridge-discuss] cooking timers!

bfb at riseup.net bfb at riseup.net
Wed Aug 28 02:04:44 UTC 2013

> On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Kevin Schiesser <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
>> I disagree fully. There is not a no sleeping rule at Noisebridge. Be
>> excellent, right? Photographing all sleepers is not excellent, and I
>> feel
>> invasive and unnecessary in most situations. It's important that an
>> effort
>> with polite but firmness is made to awaken sleepers before
>> photographing,
>> and certainly before requesting they leave and not come back until a
>> Tuesday
>> meeting.
> My own feeling has evolved/devolved on this. I now think the right way
> to think of sousveillance/surveillance is as a *negative constraint*,
> rather than a pervasive thing to be assumed, or something that does
> not exist at all.
> My turning point came when I had to escort someone out of the space (I
> was called from home to get the guy out, because everyone else had
> apparently become too exasperated to do so). It took me an hour of
> gentle coaxing because I decided that I wasn't going to shout or
> threaten him. The last twenty or so minutes were down on the bottom
> steps. Within seconds of me finally sighing announcing I was going to
> take a photo of him sitting and refusing to leave, then taking a photo
> of the guy, he left, having negotiated with me to delete the picture.
> I think taking photographs without permission isn't a good thing, in
> the same way as excluding someone from the space isn't a good thing.
> But I don't think you either have the blanket right to do things
> without being photographed, nor do I think that everyone gets to use
> the space, no matter what. Clearly delineated public activist
> recording shouldn't be an assumed state, but I'm okay with it being an
> act you personally exercise on someone whose behaviour you believe to
> be unexcellent.
> (I'm pretty tentative about this, and totally happy to be persuaded of
> the opposite of this)
> d.

Rights and expectations aside, the excellence of photography without
consent depends... In lieu of enumerating all of the possible cases...

Photographing someone who has been asked to leave by a consensus of people
involved keeps Noisebridge safe.

Taking a photo of a sleeper on the napping pods without having made a good
faith effort to get more information (attempting to wake the sleeper,
asking around, having made observations prior, etc.) is invasive.


>> My 2c on protocol. I would be very disappointed if we had a queue of
>> sleepers at every Tuesday meeting.
>> --Kevin
>> On 08/25/2013 02:53 AM, Jake wrote:
>>> Yes Jim that would help.  We need to figure out who the people are who
>>> are
>>> sleeping at noisebridge and ask them (when they're awake) to leave
>>> until
>>> they come talk about it at a meeting.
>>> thank you
>>> -jake
>>> Jim wrote:
>>>     Would it help to take photos of sleepers
>>> and print and post them for the rest of us
>>> to identify?
>>> On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 05:10 -0700, Alexandra Glowaski wrote:
>>>> 7:3 sleepers to wakers; polite-but-firmness and t.A.T.u both failing.
>>>> This is a solved problem: will try to pick up some very irritating
>>>> kitchen timers befor I come in again. I trust we all know what to do.
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