[Noisebridge-discuss] Thought crimes at Noisebridge, and how can we stop them?
jim
jim at well.com
Thu Dec 19 18:42:24 UTC 2013
Al,
Your questions are good and thank you for
your response.
I will not name names, nor will I dig up
info that might allow surmise, other than you
and me. I admire you and your seeming pure-
hearted tenacity. Mostly you've taken
initiative to boot out the sleepers: kudos!
Consider the ideas of associate members
and closing hours and a council in light of
the ideas of community collaboration and an
open venue.
There has been disaffection of various
kinds ever since the build-out was somewhat
done and decorations up.
Please take my response as food for
reflection, suggestions to balance the urge
to create policy.
On Thu, 2013-12-19 at 10:10 -0800, Al Sweigart wrote:
> Jim, could you give some examples of which NB members left because of
> rule makers rather than rule breakers? And can you say which rule
> makers and what rules they had gripes about? (I don't mind if you name
> me among them.)
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 9:46 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
>
> Trying to find community is a matter of bonding
> with others, yes? Why not come and find others who
> share your values and interests and, with respect
> to others, live and let live?
> One big and largely ignored fact of NB is that
> there are several communities, such as the morning,
> mid-day, evening, and late evening people as well
> as those that center about electronics, sewing,
> software, cooking, spacebridge, and other interests.
> It's unfortunate for some, who are harmless or
> who offer real benefits to some others, that the
> evening crowd has a much greater affect than others
> regarding NB governance, and one of the founding
> principles has been to recognize those who, for
> whatever reasons, do not or can not attend
> The Tuesday Night Meeting.
>
> You've exaggerated the bad features and skipped
> the good features of Noisebridge. A couple of good
> features are
> * the openness provides a great place to meet people
> that one otherwise would never meet.
> * cross-fertilization of interests and ideas among
> various interest groups.
>
> Those who simply "hack" and avoid the fray are
> affected by the decisions of those who kick up the
> fray: e.g. associate members and closing hours among
> other tho't crimes.
> The attempts to impose rules to govern mostly
> * mask individuals' behaviors (people can blind
> themselves to reality with the comfort that there
> are rules)
> * and, it seems to me having watched NB from its
> inception, like medicines' side effects, rules
> generally are not worth the enforcement efforts.
>
> It's frustrating to put up with the bad sides of
> any community, but rules usually do not address many
> aspects of reality that drive behavior; patience is
> a tough road.
> There have been individual, do-ocratic efforts to
> address theft, sleeping, drug use, and other problems
> that were successful and did not employ rules.
>
> Most of the people I learned to love have left.
> I guess that's partly a matter of natural attrition,
> but I know for a fact that to some degree people have
> abandoned NB because of the rule makers rather than
> the rule breakers.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 2013-12-18 at 19:41 -0800, Madelynn Martiniere wrote:
> > Trying to find community is a thought crime? My bad, I
> didn't realize
> > the opinion of people who care about the future of the space
> were so
> > criminal.
> >
> > Considering this statement in your previous email:
> > And let's be honest, Noisebridge in the last two years (or
> even from the
> > beginning) hasn't been the best establishment to go flaunt
> around saying
> > you're a member of. It's sort of like telling all your
> friends you're a
> > paying member of the festering techno trash dump and care
> home for the
> > socially dongz, while mice and rats run around inside your
> sports blazer.
> >
> > Are you saying that it's not worth fixing because it's so
> messed up?
> > Because if so, then you're in no position to tell other
> people not to
> > try. If you're that sick and tired of hearing other people
> try to fix
> > a broken system, then I would suggest the alternative of
> just not
> > participating in any discussion about the space. Just hack
> some
> > things, and leave the rest of us to find productive
> solutions.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Madelynn
> >
> >
> > >
>
> > > Rubin Abdi
> > > December 18, 2013 6:37 PM
> > > I'm getting sick and tired of people thinking they can fix
> > > Noisebridge.
> > > How can we put an end to this issue?
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > >
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Madelynn Martiniere
> > Community Engineer. Entrepreneur. Geek.
> >
> > LinkedIn | Twitter | Email
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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