[Noisebridge-discuss] Computer Equipment in an old home?

Wed Jul 10 22:28:02 UTC 2013

Brian,

Another tip, see if you can borrow or rent a thermal IR camera to check for
hotspots in the electrical system of the home. Sometimes hidden electrical
problems can become a safety issue, especially with increased (but not
necessarily overloaded) power requirements.

Some electricians will use Thermal IR cameras as part of the inspection
process.

Cheers!
-John

On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 2:54 PM, Brian Perez <knighty04 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey thanks guys for all your help!  I'm gonna measure how much I'm using
> and see if I can get a more legit power strip to handle all my tech stuff.
>
> Almost everything I read on google said "get an electrician". I will get
> one eventually to check out what I can do.
>
> Thanks!!!
>
> Brian Perez
>
>
> On Jul 10, 2013, at 13:55, Lee Sonko <lee at lee.org> wrote:
>
> all I can say about Dennis' post is: +1
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 12:37 AM, Dennis Gentry <dennis.gentry at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Everyone is right that you might not even be pulling too much current
>> as-is, and it's cheaper to measure it than to add outlets.  In commercial
>> buildings at least, the fire department will tell you to not daisy chain
>> power strips, but you could fix that by getting a (UL approved) power strip
>> with a zillion (OK, 24) outlets<http://www.amazon.com/Multiple-Outlet-Strip-w-Surge/dp/B00BHJCOSO/>.
>>
>>
>> I searched pretty extensively for evidence that old "knob and tube"
>> wiring was more dangerous than modern romex or wire in conduit, and
>> couldn't find anything except hearsay.
>>
>> Two dangerous things are to cover it with (thermal) insulation (making it
>> prone to overheating) or to splice in new wire (incorrectly?).  I recall
>> finding something in the 2011 Electric Code<http://www.amazon.com/Wiring-Simplified-Based-National-Electrical/dp/0971977976>that said not to splice new wiring into knob and tube.
>>
>> I've found it pretty easy to run new circuits from a panel, and as stated
>> above, fuses are reliable, safe technology as long as you don't bypass
>> them.  Code in SF (deltas from NEC 2007 here<http://archive.org/stream/gov.ca.sf.electrical/ca_sf_electrical_djvu.txt> --
>> thanks, Archive.org!) doesn't require conduit, only Romex protected from
>> physical damage, and the biggest part of the work is crawling around
>> drilling holes and fishing the wire through.  I can't remember if it is a
>> requirement, but I keep my new romex and fixtures at least a foot from old
>> knob-and-tube once it leaves the panel area.
>>
>> If there isn't room in the existing panel for new circuits, it is a
>> slightly bigger deal, but it's often cheapest to leave the existing panel
>> in place and add either a new panel or a sub-panel if the existing panel
>> has the capacity for a sub-panel (you may have to poach one of the existing
>> circuits and then feed it from
>>
>> Once you have the wire installed, the outlet itself is pretty easy, they
>> make "new work" electrical boxes that are easy to install in drywall and
>> possible to install in lath-and-plaster.  (In drywall, with a drywall saw<http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-20-556-6-Inch-FatMax-Jab/dp/B00005QVQH>,
>> cutting a hole is trivial.)  I usually install GFCI outlets, but if there's
>> no water anywhere near, a regular grounded outlet is fine.
>>
>> For adding outlets, you're supposed to get a permit.  Last time I got a
>> permit for homeowner electrical work, it was about $45 and the inspector
>> was super helpful -- neither of us wanted to burn down the building.
>>
>> Good Luck!
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 9:24 PM, Martin Bogomolni <martinbogo at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> I second the "replace the wiring" strategy.
>>>
>>> In one of the older victorians near Alamo Square, I helped a friend
>>> rewire the house using molded conduit in various rooms.   We also
>>> replaced the mains panel with a new one that had breakers (rather than
>>> glass fuses).
>>>
>>> It's not a trivial project, but it can be a relatively straightforward
>>> one.   Cost of materials and wiring for that project was ~$1200.
>>>
>>> -M
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Adrian Chadd <adrian.chadd at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > ... turn-on current.
>>> >
>>> > TThe rush of turn-on current on a strip of electronics is not
>>> negligible.
>>> >
>>> > I'd also be surprised if ye olde house wiring is actually safe at
>>> > drawing 15A. You may find it's actually not safe to drive it at that
>>> > for very long.
>>> >
>>> > Combine that with all the myriad ways that these things are hooked up
>>> > behind the scenes - American houses seem have this habit of having
>>> > separate wiring for lights-that-terminate-on-wall-sockets versus the
>>> > occasional high-powered wall socket for something more than a light.
>>> > So it can all be quite deceptive. Your light circuit may not really
>>> > terminate a full 15A, let alone the higher rush when all your devices
>>> > turn on.
>>> >
>>> > Add in all the possible damage and failure cases with that wire, with
>>> > say weather and other environmental effects, and there's quite a lot
>>> > of potential "wtf?" going on that a fuse just won't tell you about.
>>> > And that's the kind of thing that can start fires and/or kill people
>>> > in other creative ways.
>>> >
>>> > Circuit breakers can detect and cut off these transient current
>>> > rushes. Fuses in mains wiring tend not to. I'd personally upgrade
>>> > everything to circuit breakers. If you start having some intermittent
>>> > circuit breaker resets, you can be sure you've done something stupid
>>> > or there's some transient dodgy wiring somewhere.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -adrian
>>> > (I don't fuck around when it comes to mains electricity.)
>>> >
>>> > On 9 July 2013 17:40, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>>> >> Hi Brian,
>>> >>
>>> >> I agree with what Gopi says - use a kill-a-watt to measure how much
>>> power
>>> >> you're using if you're afraid of overloading the wiring.
>>> >>
>>> >> but instead of that, you can simply get a power strip and plug
>>> everything
>>> >> into that.  A power strip has its own circuit breaker (15 amps) and
>>> that
>>> >> will trip before you blow a fuse.
>>> >>
>>> >> If your whole room is running from an extension cord from somewhere
>>> else,
>>> >> use a power strip (with its own circuit breaker - they all have one)
>>> where
>>> >> that extension cord plugs in.  You can also use a GFCI adaptor like
>>> this:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/GFCI-Outlet-Adapters-Single-Adapter/dp/B001OE3JHC
>>> >>
>>> >> That will get you a lot of protection.  If you take too much power in
>>> your
>>> >> room, you might pop the breaker in a power strip, or you might blow a
>>> fuse,
>>> >> but it shouldn't cause a problem otherwise.
>>> >>
>>> >> The thing is, most modern electronics don't use very much power.  You
>>> can
>>> >> have ten desktop computers and LCD monitors on one 15 amp circuit
>>> (1500
>>> >> watts total).  A cellphone charger is up to 5 watts - you can have
>>> 300 of
>>> >> those!
>>> >>
>>> >> All this goes out the window if you try a toaster, electric oven, or
>>> space
>>> >> heater.  Forget it.  Also those big hot halogen lamps use a lot of
>>> power.
>>> >> But you can read the labels and do the math.
>>> >>
>>> >> If you want to preserve the wiring you have and keep it from messing
>>> up,
>>> >> just don't mess with it or allow things to flex.  The solid wires in
>>> the
>>> >> walls are not meant to move, they are stiff.  So if an outlet is
>>> loose and
>>> >> flops around, either tune it up or plug a power strip into it and
>>> screw the
>>> >> cord of the power strip to the wall, so it doesn't move things around.
>>> >>
>>> >> The fuses in your fuse box are fine.  This technology is very
>>> reliable,
>>> >> moreso than many circuit breakers!  A fuse is very unlikely to fail
>>> to fail,
>>> >> if you know what i mean, which means it will protect you.  Of course
>>> if a
>>> >> fuse has a penny stuck under it (someone tried to save the cost of a
>>> new
>>> >> fuse) then there is no protection.  The screw-in fuses were designed
>>> to
>>> >> allow you to put a lightbulb in place of a fuse to diagnose shorts.
>>> When the
>>> >> bulb stopped lighting up, there was no more current draw and you could
>>> >> install a new fuse.
>>> >>
>>> >> long story short, it's not the number of things you have, it's the
>>> total
>>> >> power draw, which will be limited by the fuse and any power strips on
>>> the
>>> >> way.  And don't let that old wiring move around or it might break.
>>> >>
>>> >> -jake
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Brian Perez wrote:
>>> >> Hey all, since SF has a lot of old buildings I'm sure someone could
>>> help me
>>> >> with this problem I'm facing.  I have an old home (circa 1930s) and
>>> all the
>>> >> wiring is the old copper cloth-covered kind and there's BARELY an
>>> outlet in
>>> >> the house.  My room has no outlet; my power is pulled through the
>>> window to
>>> >> the back room and up to the light socket.  BAD, I know.
>>> >>
>>> >> Being the tech guy I am I'm starting to run out of sockets with the
>>> >> extensions I have.  There's basically three surge protectors daisy
>>> changed
>>> >> to power everything in my room.
>>> >>
>>> >> What are my options to make this more secure and safe? (And
>>> potentially add
>>> >> more sockets)
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks!
>>> >> Brian
>>> >>
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