[Noisebridge-discuss] happy feminist film night: Hayao Miyazaki?

[Snail]

I don't want to watch films at Noisebridge if trolls like you will be
around. This is why I stopped going. :/


On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:15 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:

> Was calling men an oppressor class on-topic?
>
> I don't know what I want! Yikes.
>
>
>
> On Jul 27, 2013, at 10:10 PM, Snail <snailtsunami at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It seems like you want one of us to say "not all men are oppressors",
> which has nothing to do with the original topic. :P
>
> Why do you want to call yourself a feminist, if that is what you want? Or
> are you just trolling at this point?
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 9:54 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jul 27, 2013, at 9:15 PM, Lupita Berries <garyberries at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm actually really interested to know what type of feminist theory you
>> subscribe to. Although there are lots of variations in feminist theory, all
>> of them have the core believe that the patriarchy is the oppressor. That
>> means men as a class. Are women now not allowed to name their oppressor?
>> How does this help feminism at all? If anything, this would purpose a huge
>> setback.
>>
>>
>> Knowing your enemy is the first step to winning a war. The fact is that
>> men who do not oppress women are not your enemy. Notice that I did not say
>> that men who don't INTEND to oppress women are not your enemy...oppression
>> is oppression, and men may be part of a patriarchy whether they realize it
>> or not. Pointing out oppression when you see it is a good way to effect
>> positive change in those who are willing to accept modification of their
>> worldview.
>>
>> Indians were able to say the British were killing and stealing from them.
>> Blacks were able to say whites were enslaving and lynching them. Are women
>> not allowed to say that men as a class are the ones that are killing,
>> raping, and abusing women? You seem to want to neuter feminism to be more
>> male friendly, instead of actually attacking the destructive culture and
>> system in place that is hurting WOMEN. You are proving my own argument as
>> to why men cannot be feminists. Your behavior isn't helping you.
>>
>>
>> This might be the core of our disagreement. People hurting other people
>> is a story told since the beginning of history. It's not as simple as
>> Indian vs. British, Black vs. White, Woman vs. Man. In all of these
>> conflicts, the labeled oppressor group is paying for the sins of a twisted
>> microset of the whole. The majority of men do not kill, rape, or abuse
>> women, nor do they approve or encourage the actions of those who do. Have
>> they in the past? Quite possibly.
>>
>>
>> Also, classic example of calling a woman's arguments "illogical". I've
>> taught logic as a college level, and my job regularly requires my logic
>> skills to be sharp. I doubt I'm the one having problems here.
>>
>>
>> The logical fallacy I referred to was "Women have been oppressed by some
>> men; therefore all men are oppressors." If that's not at all what you meant
>> by labeling men as an oppressor class, many of my problems with your
>> arguments would simply evaporate and I would concede.
>>
>> And your statement about straight people supporting gay rights... That is
>> on so many levels offensive and... I don't really know how to begin
>> explaining the many ways that is wrong.
>>
>>
>> I'd appreciate it if you did attempt to explain just a few of the ways
>> you believe it to be a false analogy.
>>
>> Now I am starting to wonder if you are just a lone sheep of ignorance or
>> if you are expressing the misguided thoughts of many other people within
>> noisebridge. I really hope you are just alone in this backwards thinking.
>>
>>
>> This is me speaking for myself alone; Noisebridge is not an oppressor
>> class.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 8:57 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Not sure where I "brushed off" anything, OR told her that she was doing
>>> feminism wrong. She gets to do feminism however she pleases. I only jumped
>>> in when she responded to Romy's friendly invitation by lumping all men
>>> together into an "oppressor class" which is hard to process as anything but
>>> deliberately inflammatory logical fallacy.
>>>
>>> How many straight people who support gay rights should be told to shove
>>> off?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 27, 2013, at 8:37 PM, hep <dis at gruntle.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Oh it's not invalid, just HIGHLY disrespect to brush off the concerns of
>>> someone of an oppressed group trying to defend their own group. i mean hey,
>>> why would a woman be touchy about some guy telling her she isn't doing
>>> feminism right tho, right?
>>>
>>> -hep
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 8:22 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ...followed up by the "labeling a type of argument means the argument
>>>> is invalid" argument. :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 27, 2013, at 8:14 PM, hep <dis at gruntle.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> wow, the tone argument to complete this episode of noisebridge
>>>> privilege bingo.
>>>>
>>>> -hep
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 8:10 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The only definition I challenged was whether a man could consider
>>>>> themselves feminist. There's anything but consensus on whether being a
>>>>> feminist requires a specific configuration of organs, but I believe that a
>>>>> man can want the same things, and that feminism is an idea rather than an
>>>>> accident of genetics. I'm not even claiming that I'm a feminist, though I
>>>>> often identify with their thinking. What Lupita might be on guard against
>>>>> is a sick form of sexism where men purport to be feminists but actually
>>>>> want to gain female approval through white-knighting the movement,
>>>>> attempting to make women dependent on their protection.
>>>>>
>>>>> But, to be entirely honest...I felt Lupita's phrasing was not what
>>>>> someone would use to reprimand someone and draw them to their point of
>>>>> view, but was constructed purely to ignite controversy. Therefore I thought
>>>>> I was feeding a few breadcrumbs to an obvious troll, which might change
>>>>> your opinion of how reasonable I actually am.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> hep
>>>> hepic photography || www.hepic.net
>>>>     dis at gruntle.org || 415 867 9472
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> hep
>>> hepic photography || www.hepic.net
>>>     dis at gruntle.org || 415 867 9472
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> -Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails
> ............. _ at y
> http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/
>
>
>


-- 
-Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails
............. _ at y
http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/
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