[Noisebridge-discuss] happy feminist film night: Hayao Miyazaki?

macegr garrettmace at gmail.com
Sun Jul 28 05:24:29 UTC 2013


I won't be there.

I would like an answer to my question, but am OK with you choosing not to do so.



On Jul 27, 2013, at 10:19 PM, Snail <snailtsunami at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't want to watch films at Noisebridge if trolls like you will be around. This is why I stopped going. :/
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:15 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:
> Was calling men an oppressor class on-topic?
> 
> I don't know what I want! Yikes.
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 27, 2013, at 10:10 PM, Snail <snailtsunami at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> It seems like you want one of us to say "not all men are oppressors", which has nothing to do with the original topic. :P
>> 
>> Why do you want to call yourself a feminist, if that is what you want? Or are you just trolling at this point?
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 9:54 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On Jul 27, 2013, at 9:15 PM, Lupita Berries <garyberries at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm actually really interested to know what type of feminist theory you subscribe to. Although there are lots of variations in feminist theory, all of them have the core believe that the patriarchy is the oppressor. That means men as a class. Are women now not allowed to name their oppressor? How does this help feminism at all? If anything, this would purpose a huge setback.
>> 
>> Knowing your enemy is the first step to winning a war. The fact is that men who do not oppress women are not your enemy. Notice that I did not say that men who don't INTEND to oppress women are not your enemy...oppression is oppression, and men may be part of a patriarchy whether they realize it or not. Pointing out oppression when you see it is a good way to effect positive change in those who are willing to accept modification of their worldview.
>> 
>>> Indians were able to say the British were killing and stealing from them. Blacks were able to say whites were enslaving and lynching them. Are women not allowed to say that men as a class are the ones that are killing, raping, and abusing women? You seem to want to neuter feminism to be more male friendly, instead of actually attacking the destructive culture and system in place that is hurting WOMEN. You are proving my own argument as to why men cannot be feminists. Your behavior isn't helping you.
>> 
>> This might be the core of our disagreement. People hurting other people is a story told since the beginning of history. It's not as simple as Indian vs. British, Black vs. White, Woman vs. Man. In all of these conflicts, the labeled oppressor group is paying for the sins of a twisted microset of the whole. The majority of men do not kill, rape, or abuse women, nor do they approve or encourage the actions of those who do. Have they in the past? Quite possibly.
>> 
>> 
>>> Also, classic example of calling a woman's arguments "illogical". I've taught logic as a college level, and my job regularly requires my logic skills to be sharp. I doubt I'm the one having problems here. 
>> 
>> The logical fallacy I referred to was "Women have been oppressed by some men; therefore all men are oppressors." If that's not at all what you meant by labeling men as an oppressor class, many of my problems with your arguments would simply evaporate and I would concede.
>> 
>>> And your statement about straight people supporting gay rights... That is on so many levels offensive and... I don't really know how to begin explaining the many ways that is wrong. 
>> 
>> I'd appreciate it if you did attempt to explain just a few of the ways you believe it to be a false analogy.
>> 
>>> Now I am starting to wonder if you are just a lone sheep of ignorance or if you are expressing the misguided thoughts of many other people within noisebridge. I really hope you are just alone in this backwards thinking. 
>> 
>> This is me speaking for myself alone; Noisebridge is not an oppressor class.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 8:57 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Not sure where I "brushed off" anything, OR told her that she was doing feminism wrong. She gets to do feminism however she pleases. I only jumped in when she responded to Romy's friendly invitation by lumping all men together into an "oppressor class" which is hard to process as anything but deliberately inflammatory logical fallacy.
>>> 
>>> How many straight people who support gay rights should be told to shove off?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jul 27, 2013, at 8:37 PM, hep <dis at gruntle.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Oh it's not invalid, just HIGHLY disrespect to brush off the concerns of someone of an oppressed group trying to defend their own group. i mean hey, why would a woman be touchy about some guy telling her she isn't doing feminism right tho, right? 
>>>> 
>>>> -hep 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 8:22 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> ...followed up by the "labeling a type of argument means the argument is invalid" argument. :)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 27, 2013, at 8:14 PM, hep <dis at gruntle.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> wow, the tone argument to complete this episode of noisebridge privilege bingo. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -hep
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 8:10 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> The only definition I challenged was whether a man could consider themselves feminist. There's anything but consensus on whether being a feminist requires a specific configuration of organs, but I believe that a man can want the same things, and that feminism is an idea rather than an accident of genetics. I'm not even claiming that I'm a feminist, though I often identify with their thinking. What Lupita might be on guard against is a sick form of sexism where men purport to be feminists but actually want to gain female approval through white-knighting the movement, attempting to make women dependent on their protection.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But, to be entirely honest...I felt Lupita's phrasing was not what someone would use to reprimand someone and draw them to their point of view, but was constructed purely to ignite controversy. Therefore I thought I was feeding a few breadcrumbs to an obvious troll, which might change your opinion of how reasonable I actually am.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> hep
>>>>> hepic photography || www.hepic.net
>>>>>     dis at gruntle.org || 415 867 9472 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> hep
>>>> hepic photography || www.hepic.net
>>>>     dis at gruntle.org || 415 867 9472 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> -- 
>> -Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails
>> ............. _ at y
>> http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails
> ............. _ at y
> http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/

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