[Noisebridge-discuss] happy feminist film night: Hayao Miyazaki?

Curtis Gagliardi gagliardi.curtis at gmail.com
Sun Jul 28 05:48:41 UTC 2013


Do people actually think that everyone they disagree with is trolling
them?  Do you think macegr is pretending to have a different definition of
feminism than Lupita or pretending to be sensitive about being a member of
the oppressing class just to annoy you guys?


On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:37 PM, Snail <snailtsunami at gmail.com> wrote:

> And I would like a million dollars and a phoenix! But I think you realize
> that "ALL MEN ARE OPPEPRSSORSO MOGMZOMG!!" was never a topic and isn't what
> any of us actually think. :P But you a troll, alas. My only consolation is
> this literal pile of bacon I am eating. I don't know - if you are trolling
> what kind of reaction are you actually going for? Please don't answer that,
> because I don't really want to keep talking to you.
>
>
> Mostly - I am sorry to Romy, for the side-tracked discussion on her
> thread. ROMY! I hope you are not deterred and that you can reach an
> understanding with those who disagree on some ideas. I do not have a firm
> foot in either camp, tbh. If there is a get-together that's not at
> Noisebridge, let me know.
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:24 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I won't be there.
>>
>> I would like an answer to my question, but am OK with you choosing not to
>> do so.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 27, 2013, at 10:19 PM, Snail <snailtsunami at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I don't want to watch films at Noisebridge if trolls like you will be
>> around. This is why I stopped going. :/
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:15 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Was calling men an oppressor class on-topic?
>>>
>>> I don't know what I want! Yikes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 27, 2013, at 10:10 PM, Snail <snailtsunami at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> It seems like you want one of us to say "not all men are oppressors",
>>> which has nothing to do with the original topic. :P
>>>
>>> Why do you want to call yourself a feminist, if that is what you want?
>>> Or are you just trolling at this point?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 9:54 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 27, 2013, at 9:15 PM, Lupita Berries <garyberries at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm actually really interested to know what type of feminist theory you
>>>> subscribe to. Although there are lots of variations in feminist theory, all
>>>> of them have the core believe that the patriarchy is the oppressor. That
>>>> means men as a class. Are women now not allowed to name their oppressor?
>>>> How does this help feminism at all? If anything, this would purpose a huge
>>>> setback.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Knowing your enemy is the first step to winning a war. The fact is that
>>>> men who do not oppress women are not your enemy. Notice that I did not say
>>>> that men who don't INTEND to oppress women are not your enemy...oppression
>>>> is oppression, and men may be part of a patriarchy whether they realize it
>>>> or not. Pointing out oppression when you see it is a good way to effect
>>>> positive change in those who are willing to accept modification of their
>>>> worldview.
>>>>
>>>> Indians were able to say the British were killing and stealing from
>>>> them. Blacks were able to say whites were enslaving and lynching them. Are
>>>> women not allowed to say that men as a class are the ones that are killing,
>>>> raping, and abusing women? You seem to want to neuter feminism to be more
>>>> male friendly, instead of actually attacking the destructive culture and
>>>> system in place that is hurting WOMEN. You are proving my own argument as
>>>> to why men cannot be feminists. Your behavior isn't helping you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This might be the core of our disagreement. People hurting other people
>>>> is a story told since the beginning of history. It's not as simple as
>>>> Indian vs. British, Black vs. White, Woman vs. Man. In all of these
>>>> conflicts, the labeled oppressor group is paying for the sins of a twisted
>>>> microset of the whole. The majority of men do not kill, rape, or abuse
>>>> women, nor do they approve or encourage the actions of those who do. Have
>>>> they in the past? Quite possibly.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, classic example of calling a woman's arguments "illogical". I've
>>>> taught logic as a college level, and my job regularly requires my logic
>>>> skills to be sharp. I doubt I'm the one having problems here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The logical fallacy I referred to was "Women have been oppressed by
>>>> some men; therefore all men are oppressors." If that's not at all what you
>>>> meant by labeling men as an oppressor class, many of my problems with your
>>>> arguments would simply evaporate and I would concede.
>>>>
>>>> And your statement about straight people supporting gay rights... That
>>>> is on so many levels offensive and... I don't really know how to begin
>>>> explaining the many ways that is wrong.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'd appreciate it if you did attempt to explain just a few of the ways
>>>> you believe it to be a false analogy.
>>>>
>>>> Now I am starting to wonder if you are just a lone sheep of ignorance
>>>> or if you are expressing the misguided thoughts of many other people within
>>>> noisebridge. I really hope you are just alone in this backwards thinking.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is me speaking for myself alone; Noisebridge is not an oppressor
>>>> class.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 8:57 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Not sure where I "brushed off" anything, OR told her that she was
>>>>> doing feminism wrong. She gets to do feminism however she pleases. I only
>>>>> jumped in when she responded to Romy's friendly invitation by lumping all
>>>>> men together into an "oppressor class" which is hard to process as anything
>>>>> but deliberately inflammatory logical fallacy.
>>>>>
>>>>> How many straight people who support gay rights should be told to
>>>>> shove off?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 27, 2013, at 8:37 PM, hep <dis at gruntle.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh it's not invalid, just HIGHLY disrespect to brush off the concerns
>>>>> of someone of an oppressed group trying to defend their own group. i mean
>>>>> hey, why would a woman be touchy about some guy telling her she isn't doing
>>>>> feminism right tho, right?
>>>>>
>>>>> -hep
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 8:22 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ...followed up by the "labeling a type of argument means the argument
>>>>>> is invalid" argument. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 27, 2013, at 8:14 PM, hep <dis at gruntle.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> wow, the tone argument to complete this episode of noisebridge
>>>>>> privilege bingo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -hep
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 8:10 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only definition I challenged was whether a man could consider
>>>>>>> themselves feminist. There's anything but consensus on whether being a
>>>>>>> feminist requires a specific configuration of organs, but I believe that a
>>>>>>> man can want the same things, and that feminism is an idea rather than an
>>>>>>> accident of genetics. I'm not even claiming that I'm a feminist, though I
>>>>>>> often identify with their thinking. What Lupita might be on guard against
>>>>>>> is a sick form of sexism where men purport to be feminists but actually
>>>>>>> want to gain female approval through white-knighting the movement,
>>>>>>> attempting to make women dependent on their protection.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But, to be entirely honest...I felt Lupita's phrasing was not what
>>>>>>> someone would use to reprimand someone and draw them to their point of
>>>>>>> view, but was constructed purely to ignite controversy. Therefore I thought
>>>>>>> I was feeding a few breadcrumbs to an obvious troll, which might change
>>>>>>> your opinion of how reasonable I actually am.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> hep
>>>>>> hepic photography || www.hepic.net
>>>>>>     dis at gruntle.org || 415 867 9472
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> hep
>>>>> hepic photography || www.hepic.net
>>>>>     dis at gruntle.org || 415 867 9472
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> -Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails
>>> ............. _ at y
>>> http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails
>> ............. _ at y
>> http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> -Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails
> ............. _ at y
> http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20130727/1280b208/attachment-0003.html>


More information about the Noisebridge-discuss mailing list