[Noisebridge-discuss] happy feminist film night: Hayao Miyazaki?

Sun Jul 28 05:37:58 UTC 2013

And I would like a million dollars and a phoenix! But I think you realize
that "ALL MEN ARE OPPEPRSSORSO MOGMZOMG!!" was never a topic and isn't what
any of us actually think. :P But you a troll, alas. My only consolation is
this literal pile of bacon I am eating. I don't know - if you are trolling
what kind of reaction are you actually going for? Please don't answer that,
because I don't really want to keep talking to you.

Mostly - I am sorry to Romy, for the side-tracked discussion on her thread.
ROMY! I hope you are not deterred and that you can reach an understanding
with those who disagree on some ideas. I do not have a firm foot in either
camp, tbh. If there is a get-together that's not at Noisebridge, let me
know.

On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:24 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:

> I won't be there.
>
> I would like an answer to my question, but am OK with you choosing not to
> do so.
>
>
>
> On Jul 27, 2013, at 10:19 PM, Snail <snailtsunami at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I don't want to watch films at Noisebridge if trolls like you will be
> around. This is why I stopped going. :/
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 10:15 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Was calling men an oppressor class on-topic?
>>
>> I don't know what I want! Yikes.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 27, 2013, at 10:10 PM, Snail <snailtsunami at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> It seems like you want one of us to say "not all men are oppressors",
>> which has nothing to do with the original topic. :P
>>
>> Why do you want to call yourself a feminist, if that is what you want? Or
>> are you just trolling at this point?
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 9:54 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 27, 2013, at 9:15 PM, Lupita Berries <garyberries at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm actually really interested to know what type of feminist theory you
>>> subscribe to. Although there are lots of variations in feminist theory, all
>>> of them have the core believe that the patriarchy is the oppressor. That
>>> means men as a class. Are women now not allowed to name their oppressor?
>>> How does this help feminism at all? If anything, this would purpose a huge
>>> setback.
>>>
>>>
>>> Knowing your enemy is the first step to winning a war. The fact is that
>>> men who do not oppress women are not your enemy. Notice that I did not say
>>> that men who don't INTEND to oppress women are not your enemy...oppression
>>> is oppression, and men may be part of a patriarchy whether they realize it
>>> or not. Pointing out oppression when you see it is a good way to effect
>>> positive change in those who are willing to accept modification of their
>>> worldview.
>>>
>>> Indians were able to say the British were killing and stealing from
>>> them. Blacks were able to say whites were enslaving and lynching them. Are
>>> women not allowed to say that men as a class are the ones that are killing,
>>> raping, and abusing women? You seem to want to neuter feminism to be more
>>> male friendly, instead of actually attacking the destructive culture and
>>> system in place that is hurting WOMEN. You are proving my own argument as
>>> to why men cannot be feminists. Your behavior isn't helping you.
>>>
>>>
>>> This might be the core of our disagreement. People hurting other people
>>> is a story told since the beginning of history. It's not as simple as
>>> Indian vs. British, Black vs. White, Woman vs. Man. In all of these
>>> conflicts, the labeled oppressor group is paying for the sins of a twisted
>>> microset of the whole. The majority of men do not kill, rape, or abuse
>>> women, nor do they approve or encourage the actions of those who do. Have
>>> they in the past? Quite possibly.
>>>
>>>
>>> Also, classic example of calling a woman's arguments "illogical". I've
>>> taught logic as a college level, and my job regularly requires my logic
>>> skills to be sharp. I doubt I'm the one having problems here.
>>>
>>>
>>> The logical fallacy I referred to was "Women have been oppressed by some
>>> men; therefore all men are oppressors." If that's not at all what you meant
>>> by labeling men as an oppressor class, many of my problems with your
>>> arguments would simply evaporate and I would concede.
>>>
>>> And your statement about straight people supporting gay rights... That
>>> is on so many levels offensive and... I don't really know how to begin
>>> explaining the many ways that is wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd appreciate it if you did attempt to explain just a few of the ways
>>> you believe it to be a false analogy.
>>>
>>> Now I am starting to wonder if you are just a lone sheep of ignorance or
>>> if you are expressing the misguided thoughts of many other people within
>>> noisebridge. I really hope you are just alone in this backwards thinking.
>>>
>>>
>>> This is me speaking for myself alone; Noisebridge is not an oppressor
>>> class.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 8:57 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not sure where I "brushed off" anything, OR told her that she was doing
>>>> feminism wrong. She gets to do feminism however she pleases. I only jumped
>>>> in when she responded to Romy's friendly invitation by lumping all men
>>>> together into an "oppressor class" which is hard to process as anything but
>>>> deliberately inflammatory logical fallacy.
>>>>
>>>> How many straight people who support gay rights should be told to shove
>>>> off?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 27, 2013, at 8:37 PM, hep <dis at gruntle.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Oh it's not invalid, just HIGHLY disrespect to brush off the concerns
>>>> of someone of an oppressed group trying to defend their own group. i mean
>>>> hey, why would a woman be touchy about some guy telling her she isn't doing
>>>> feminism right tho, right?
>>>>
>>>> -hep
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 8:22 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ...followed up by the "labeling a type of argument means the argument
>>>>> is invalid" argument. :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 27, 2013, at 8:14 PM, hep <dis at gruntle.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> wow, the tone argument to complete this episode of noisebridge
>>>>> privilege bingo.
>>>>>
>>>>> -hep
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 8:10 PM, macegr <garrettmace at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The only definition I challenged was whether a man could consider
>>>>>> themselves feminist. There's anything but consensus on whether being a
>>>>>> feminist requires a specific configuration of organs, but I believe that a
>>>>>> man can want the same things, and that feminism is an idea rather than an
>>>>>> accident of genetics. I'm not even claiming that I'm a feminist, though I
>>>>>> often identify with their thinking. What Lupita might be on guard against
>>>>>> is a sick form of sexism where men purport to be feminists but actually
>>>>>> want to gain female approval through white-knighting the movement,
>>>>>> attempting to make women dependent on their protection.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But, to be entirely honest...I felt Lupita's phrasing was not what
>>>>>> someone would use to reprimand someone and draw them to their point of
>>>>>> view, but was constructed purely to ignite controversy. Therefore I thought
>>>>>> I was feeding a few breadcrumbs to an obvious troll, which might change
>>>>>> your opinion of how reasonable I actually am.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> hep
>>>>> hepic photography || www.hepic.net
>>>>>     dis at gruntle.org || 415 867 9472
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> hep
>>>> hepic photography || www.hepic.net
>>>>     dis at gruntle.org || 415 867 9472
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails
>> ............. _ at y
>> http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> -Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails
> ............. _ at y
> http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/
>
>
>

-- 
-Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails
............. _ at y
http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/
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