[Noisebridge-discuss] anti-anonymity proposals

[jim]

On Fri, 2013-11-15 at 21:40 -0800, Danny O'Brien wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 8:41 PM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
> > JS: For the last many years I've become used
> > to getting inflamed responses to my ideas.
> 
> Jim, this may be because your ideas have, to be polite, slipped the
> surly bonds of earth. 
JS: I believe that my ideas have been misread 
and/or misconstrued. 
    It's burdensome, I know, but I hope you'll 
have read at least some of my replies to list 
reaction. 
    Please point out anything I wrote that 
seems over the top. 
> 
> >     Ceren raised the topic of harassment; I
> > picked a crude example that I believe has
> > happened a couple of times at Noisebridge to
> > have specifics to discuss.
> >
> 
> That sentence sense makes no. 
"topic of harassment" seems clear. 
"crude example that has happened a 
couple of times" seems clear--
explicitly groping or "copping a feel" 
"have specifics to discuss" is this unclear? 

> 
> > JS: Note that your friends are your community,
> > but not everyone at noisebridge is your friend
> > (I don't mean enemy, just that there are people
> > who come to NB who don't know you're part of NB,
> > just as you don't know of them).
> >     There are at least a few different
> > communities at Noisebridge, and as far as I
> > can tell, they're largely ignorant of the others.
> >
> 
> This is true. But, honestly, if someone was to punch somebody else in
> the face at Noisebridge, I'd throw them out. I'm not really happy
> working in a place where that's okay -- nor where people can't turn to
> others to cope with physical assault or harassment.
> 
> Really, I don't actually know how to engage with you usefully without
> that as a baseline. You're saying here that violence is *better*
> solution that a code of conduct. That may be okay for people  who are
> better at slugging people out than negotiating written social rules,
> but I really don't actually want to be in the same space as people
> like that. You have to have *some* shared values in order to
> co-operatively run a space, and that seems to be one of the basic
> ones.
> 
> d.
> 
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 2013-11-15 at 15:42 -0800, Danny O'Brien wrote:
> >> On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Snail <snailtsunami at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 11:13 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>     As to females being harassed, for cases of
> >> >> crude coppings of feels, I dislike taht female
> >> >> turning to the community for support; I would
> >> >> eagerly defend any female who hauled off and
> >> >> slugged whoever copped a feel or to go get some
> >> >> friends and return to verbally educate the
> >> >> offender: it's dis-empowering to perceive one's
> >> >> self as a victim and turn to a community for
> >> >> support for what is an individual incident.
> >> >
> >>
> >> On the planet I live on, my friends *are* my community, and violence
> >> of any kind within that community is unacceptable to me. The whole
> >> *point* is to be able to turn to the community as a whole, so that
> >> people who are otherwise diminished in power can expect the support of
> >> others.
> >>
> >> Christ, Jim, what the hell *is* this?
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Whoa - whoa whoa whoa - whoaaaaa...
> >> >
> >> > Time out - did you really just say that women who get groped ("cases of
> >> > crude coppings of feels") should not ask the community to help them out? And
> >> > you believe that it's disempowering somehow??
> >> >
> >> > And that people should just punch people or deal with it on their own? Is
> >> > this really what you're suggesting?
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>     There will be no way fully to suppress such
> >> >> actions taken by horney and inconsiderate
> >> >> personages, policies and rules and committee
> >> >> resolutions aside (far, far aside, I hope).
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > I can't even. Here's a good way to suppress the actions of "horney" or
> >> > inconsiderate people: never let them back in Noisebridge because that's a
> >> > terrible excuse for their actions!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>     Please ask yourself if you are prone to
> >> >> express yourself when you believe you have the
> >> >> "high ground" and can properly scold others. I.e.,
> >> >> are you living too much with anger?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > With the rage of a thousand burning stars.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > TO EVERYONE ELSE READING THIS - There are lots of people in the community at
> >> > large who will help you out if someone is creeping on you or worse, whether
> >> > you are "taht females" or just a plain ol' human being! Don't let what Jim
> >> > says dissuade you from reporting harassment or assault or pointing out
> >> > creepers! This is not an opinion everyone here carries. Please don't ever
> >> > feel like it's your fault or that you're required to punch people - it's a
> >> > valid and rational response to remove yourself from a dangerous situation
> >> > and try to sort things out later from a safe place rather than confront your
> >> > harasser/assaulter. If someone is creeping on you, they are pretty much
> >> > always creeping on OTHERS, too, so you are not alone or stuck in some
> >> > isolated personal incident! And as a community we can try to make
> >> > Noisebridge a safer place for everyone.
> >> >
> >> > Also, women really appreciate being called women and not "females". Do you
> >> > go around saying "the males" when referring to men? Probably not.
> >> >
> >> > Angry forever,
> >> > Snail
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > -Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails
> >> > ............. _ at y
> >> > http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
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> >> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >
> >
> >
> >