[Noisebridge-discuss] [sudo-discuss] Live demo refuting quantum mechanics, invitation (fwd)

Mon Nov 18 11:12:50 UTC 2013

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 11:44 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:

> i've been to his lab and seen everything up-close.  I also saw it at maker
> faire in 2008 or so.
>
> My favorite experiment is one where he has two sodium-iodide
> scintillators, each optically coupled to its own photomultiplier tube, and
> a radioactive source.
>

I looked at this pdf of this:

  http://www.unquantum.net/seriouschallenge.pdf

I found MCA 49 #2 somewhat odd. It is supposed to be a measure of noise,
possibly from cosmic interference. The test was conducted with no gamma-ray
source. The result I'd expect would be completely random detection events
with only random time-correlations between detection events. Here's what
the author has to say:

"In plot MCA 49 #2 there was no source inside the Pb shield, but a low
level of coincidences were
still detected. This is assumed to be from cosmic rays interacting with the
Pb shield and showering x-rays to the detectors in coincidence. This is a
background to be subtracted at similar test setups. No background
coincidences were found outside the 173 ns window shown, and the total rate
was 17 pairs/39906s ≈ (1.5 event-pairs)/hour."

So he observed coincidences within a window of 173 ns in his negative
control (the same window he uses for the experiment) but no coincidences
outside of that window. Unless there is something I'm not understanding,
that seems very suspicious. The only semi-plausible explanation I can think
of is if all of the following are true:

  1. The rate of background radiation events is so small that coincidences
inside of the scale of measurement (microsecond range) are very unlikely to
occur.

  2. Both detectors are being triggered by the same wave/particle of
background radiation (cosmic of otherwise).

I'm not sure if number 2 is even possible, but if it is, then we can
calculate the approximate distance between the two detectors based on the
173 ns delay between detections and the speed of light. If nothing is
slowing down the light:

  ~3e9 meters/second * 1.79e-7 seconds = 53.7 meters

The actual value will be lower depending on the refractive index of
whatever material is between the detectors, but unless his detectors are
spaced unusually far apart, there'd have to be something like a solid block
of the material with the highest recorded refractive index (38.6 as far as
I could find [1]) in between the detectors.

If not, then this casts doubt on all of his experimental results, since
something unknown is causing false readings to appear in exactly the
coincidence window of interest. It is not reasonable to simply subtract
those readings as noise from the other experiments: Since the source is
unknown, we cannot guess at its nature and there exists the possibility
that the number of false reading increase when the radiation source is
present.

Or am I missing something?

[1]
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2011/feb/16/metamaterial-breaks-refraction-record

The objects are placed source, detector, detector, such that one detector
> (only the sodium iodide crystal, the rest is off to the side) is in between
> the other detector and the radioactive source.
>
> He sets up window comparators on both detectors, so they only trigger on
> events which correspond to the energy of the radiation source, and sets up
> a time-comparison between the two detectors.  If detector A triggers within
> a certain time of detector B it is called a coincidence.
>
> Coincidences are mapped on the x-scale of a chart, where x=0 is when the
> event from A and B are simultaneous.  If they are not simultaneous, the
> difference in time between the detections is where on X they land.  The
> vertical of the chart is a cumulative addup of how many times that has
> happened in that x position.
>
> You would think that a gamma event could only be detected by one detector
> or the other, and be annihilated - and his chart would be white noise. But
> you can see very clearly that there is a lot of detection of the same event
> by the two detectors.
>
> How is that possible?  come see for yourself and try to figure it out.
>
> -jake
>
>
> On Sun, 17 Nov 2013, GtwoG PublicOhOne wrote:
>
>
>> Gamma rays are high-energy high-frequency photons.  What Reiter is
>> claiming is that he can demonstrate that gamma rays behave in a manner
>> unlike visible light photons, that
>> refutes the particle/wave duality that is central to the quantum theory.
>>
>> What's Reiter's history of peer-reviewed publications?
>>
>> If Reiter's theory goes back to 2003 and the demonstration setup is
>> portable, has he ever booked an open-forum slot at a physics conference, to
>> demonstrate his results?
>>
>> If this worked and could be replicated, it should have been major news
>> years ago.
>>
>> I'm highly skeptical.  Comments welcome from anyone with formal education
>> in physics.
>>
>> -G
>>
>>
>> =====
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13-11-17-Sun 8:21 PM, Jake wrote:
>>       ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>       Hello friends of Unquantum,
>>
>>       I am doing a live demonstration of the gamma-ray unquantum effect
>> that refutes the photon model of light.
>>
>>       It will be at the Chit-Chat Cafe, 5 West Manor Dr, tomorrow Monday
>> night November 18th and Monday night November 25th at 6 to 7:30 PM.   The
>> poster for the event and
>>       details of
>>       this work are at http://www.unquantum.net
>>
>>       This issue is important even if you are not a physicist.  Not all
>> of you are "friends of unquantum;" some are foes.  Some of you will think
>> this unquantum effect is
>>       impossible,
>>       so this is your chance to see it for yourself.  I will video the
>> event to post on Youtube, and will field all questions and feedback.
>>
>>       Please forgive me for the following:  This is a mass mailing and
>> not personalized.   I only do these mailings for important events.  I may
>> have sent some of you this
>>       notice
>>       earlier. The poster on my website has me with my electric guitar.
>>  I did it that way to appeal to a wide audience.  I will also play a
>> musical instrument I made at
>>       the end of
>>       the event.  For some of you it is a long drive, but I reviewed my
>> list and did not want anyone to feel left out.
>>
>>         Each event will be unique but each will demonstrate gamma-rays
>> defying the  photon model.  If you know anyone who would be interested I
>> hope you will please
>>       inform.
>>       Thank you for your interest.
>>
>>       Eric Reiter
>>       Unquantum Laboratory
>>       http://www.unquantum.net
>>       Pacifica, CA, 94044
>>       650 738 9255
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20131118/a21d05ea/attachment.html>