[Noisebridge-discuss] The Nuclear Option

Fri Nov 22 14:42:58 UTC 2013

Sorry Al but you have the chronology backwards. Look
here<https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Membership&action=history>
.
First I did a large edit that I commented "Associate Members". Tom undid it
and told me "There should be no other time when that page is changed,
except possibly when you find a typo."

I followed the spirit and letter of his email in my next
edit<https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Membership&diff=35805&oldid=35781>.
I edited the document for typos. For example, I changed
[:Category:Applicant]]
to
[[Category:Applicant]]
(notice how Tom's link is wrong)

and
 They do this by editing your wiki user page
to
They do this by logging in, editing your wiki user page
(notice how my edit follows the decision that only a member can vouch for
an applicant. If the member isn't logged in on the wiki, there's no way to
know if a member is leaving the feedback)

and (Al mentioned this example but omitted the context)
Once four folks have added a note of support on your wiki user page, you
can add yourself to the [[:Category:Associate Members]], and you're done,
to
Once four folks have added a note of support on your wiki user page, you
can change your <nowiki>[[Category:Applicant]]</nowiki> tag to a
<nowiki>[[Category:Associate
Members]]</nowiki> tag and you're done,
(If you follow the whole process and look at it in context I changed it
from (paraphrasing):
"First add yourself to the Applicant Category, then when you become an
Associate Member, add yourself to the Associate Members Category."
(notice how you are never told to remove yourself from the Applicant
Category. Oop!)
to
"First add yourself to the Applicant Category, then when you become an
Associate Member, change yourself to be in the Associate Members Category"

As Tom asked me to, I fixed typos, and my reward was to be shunned. WTF?

--------------------------------------------------
I was entrusted with administrator and bureaucrat rights because I am a
trusted person. I have kept this trust with my words and actions.
Noisebridge is a
doocracy<https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=doocracy&go=Go>
and
I'm "doing" in what certainly seems to be an excellent manner. Wikis have
the powerful and useful tradition of "be
bold<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia%3ABe_bold>".
I have followed all these guidelines and yet my reward has been to be
demoted and shunned (Tom refused to respond to 4 short, nicely worded
emails from me).

Tom, I would appreciate it if you restored my bureaucrat and administrator
rights on the wiki.

Lee

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:

> Lee, please go back and read the links I posted. In the link you and I
> both provided, you made some typo changes but also added added "logging in"
> and replaced some text with "change your
> <nowiki>[[Category:Applicant]]</nowiki> tag to a
> <nowiki>[[Category:Associate Members]]".
>
> These are wording changes, albeit small ones. Then after Tom reverted
> these changes, at which point you proceeded to replace entire paragraphs
> and outright deleted the sentence "You become an associate member as soon
> as you've added the category, which means that" These are large wording
> changes.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Lee Sonko <lee at lee.org> wrote:
>
>> Al, please go back and read my last email to the list. I followed both
>> the letter and the spirit of all of Tom's communications and I'm happy to
>> do so. And Tom's response was to.... well, go read my last email. Thanks!
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Lee, you seem to have made more than just typo correction edits to the
>>> Membership pages:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Membership&diff=35805&oldid=35781
>>>
>>> https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Membership&diff=35778&oldid=35538
>>>
>>> Changing the wording, even if it is just being helpful and making the
>>> page more readable, should be brought up at the weekly meeting.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Lee Sonko <lee at lee.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tom, I think there has been a misunderstanding. I have put an exact
>>>> transcript of our discussion below. I believe I can paraphrase it properly
>>>> with this:
>>>>
>>>> Lee: [edits Membership page]
>>>> Tom: [Rolls back edit]
>>>> Lee: Hey, why did you roll that back?
>>>> Tom: Your edit wasn't part of consensus. Only typos should be edited
>>>> Lee: Sorry. I'll only edit typos [edits a typo, here<https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Membership&diff=35805&oldid=35781>
>>>> ]
>>>> Tom: [removes Lee's bureaucrat and administrator rights, says nothing
>>>> and does not roll back Lee's typo edit]
>>>> Lee: Ha ha, very funny.
>>>> Tom: [No response]
>>>> Lee: Hey, what's up?
>>>> Tom: [No response]
>>>> Lee: Seriously, what's up?
>>>> Tom: [No response]
>>>> Lee: Dude, why did you do that?
>>>> Tom: [No response]
>>>> Lee: [To NB-D] Hey, where did Tom go?
>>>> Tom: [responds...]
>>>> ....
>>>>
>>>> Tom, your actions seem very heavy handed which is compounded by your
>>>> resistance to communicate. I continue to act in a reputable and honorable
>>>> way. I expect the same in return. I would appreciate it if you restored my
>>>> bureaucrat and administrator rights on the wiki. I'm sure there was just a
>>>> little miscommunication here, typing doesn't convey content as well as
>>>> speech does. I'll be sure to try and find you and say hello the next time
>>>> I'm in the space.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >Was it also you (IP 71.135.45.119) who edited the anti-harassment
>>>> policy page?
>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here is the exact text of the discussion we had: (I'm in blue, Tom is
>>>> in purple)
>>>>
>>>> Lee Nov 14 7:38pm
>>>> I see that you undid all my edits here [
>>>> https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Membership&diff=next&oldid=35778]
>>>> without any comments. Can you say why you rolled them all back? I'm pretty
>>>> sure that all of my changes are in-keeping with the ongoing consensus
>>>> discussion. I'm happy to discuss each potential change.
>>>> --[[User:Gadlen|gadlen]] ([[User talk:Gadlen|talk]]) 03:19, 15 November
>>>> 2013 (UTC)
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Update: I see in this edit [
>>>> https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Category:Associate_Members&diff=prev&oldid=35782]
>>>> you commented "You need to add the tag". It doesn't seem correct that
>>>> adding a tag to a page makes you an associate member. However, being an
>>>> associate member does let you legitimately add the tag.
>>>> --[[User:Gadlen|gadlen]] ([[User talk:Gadlen|talk]]) 03:32, 15 November
>>>> 2013 (UTC)
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Tom Nov 14 7:53pm:
>>>> First of all, don't edit the membership page: it's changed by
>>>> consensus only. When we agreed the last change to the membership
>>>> system, I was left with the task of writing it up our conclusions and
>>>> and adding them to the page. There should be no other time when that
>>>> page is changed, except possibly when you find a typo.
>>>>
>>>> The substance of you edits was also incorrect in both cases. It is not
>>>> possible to become an associate member using a paper form. It can only
>>>> be done on the wiki. In addition, the category is an integral part of
>>>> the process. You only become an associate member when you add your
>>>> page to the category, and you must add yourself to the category to
>>>> become an associate member. Both of these were specifically agreed at
>>>> the 2013-11-05 meeting.
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Lee Nov 14 8:40pm
>>>> Sorry, I missed reading the meeting notes from 11-5-13.
>>>>
>>>> It seemed odd that the same person that was making lots of large
>>>> changes was the person who also wrote "don't change anything!" so I just
>>>> pressed on. In the future it would be very helpful if you leave a comment
>>>> on your edit, especially drastic ones like rollbacks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are some typos on the page so I'll go ahead and fix them and then
>>>> watch how it all plays out.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> Lee received an email from the Noisebridge wiki with a subject
>>>> "Noisebridge page User:Gadlen has been created by Flamsmark". Lee assumed
>>>> (incorrectly in retrospect. Actually his privileges had been changed) that
>>>> Flamsmark had deleted and recreated his account)
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Lee Nov 14 10:49pm
>>>> Technically speaking, am I undead?
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> No response from Tom
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> Lee Nov 15 10:49pm (Lee assumed that Tom had protected the Membership
>>>> page)
>>>> The Membership page still has plenty of typos. The page hasn't ever
>>>> been vandalized and even if it were, you know where the Rollback button is.
>>>> Can you please remove the protection from it?
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> No response from Tom
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> Lee Nov 17 3:24pm
>>>> Asking again:
>>>>  On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 10:49 PM, Lee Sonko <lee at lee.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Membership page still has plenty of typos. The page hasn't ever
>>>>> been vandalized and even if it were, you know where the Rollback button is.
>>>>> Can you please remove the protection from it?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> No response from Tom
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> Lee Nov 19 12:22pm
>>>> Tom, why did you remove my <https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Special:Log/rights>bureaucrat
>>>> and administrator rights<https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Special:Log/rights> on
>>>> the Noisebridge wiki and stop answering my emails?
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> No response from Tom
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> Lee Nov 20 2:49pm
>>>> (Lee posted to NB-D about Tom not responding to emails)
>>>>  I've been having a conversation with Tom Lowenthal about NB over the
>>>> last week or so. He asked me to communicate with him directly via
>>>> email instead of publicly on the wiki<https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=User_talk%3AFlamsmark&diff=35796&oldid=35795>.
>>>> I'm happy to do so but he stopped replying a couple days back. So I'll ask
>>>> here on NB-D. There were other emails he didn't respond to but getting a
>>>> response to this one is a good start.
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>> From: Lee Sonko <lee at lee.org>
>>>> Date: Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 12:22 PM
>>>> Subject: The Nuclear Option
>>>> To: me at tomlowenthal.com
>>>> Tom, why did you remove my <https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Special:Log/rights>bureaucrat
>>>> and administrator rights<https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Special:Log/rights> on
>>>> the Noisebridge wiki and stop answering my emails?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>  End of transcript
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Tom Lowenthal <me at tomlowenthal.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Lee Sonko <lee at lee.org> wrote:
>>>>> > Tom, why did you remove my bureaucrat and administrator rights on the
>>>>> > Noisebridge wiki and stop answering my emails?
>>>>>
>>>>> Lee, I removed your admin privileges to stop you from continuing to
>>>>> edit the protected page describing our membership process.
>>>>>
>>>>> You edited the membership page, adding incorrect information, ignoring
>>>>> the notice that the page should only be edited as the result of a
>>>>> consensus discussion. When I rolled back your changes and asked you to
>>>>> stop, you admitted that you weren't at the consensus discussion,
>>>>> hadn't actually read any notes about it, and were just adding
>>>>> information that you thought was similar to what had been discussed.
>>>>> Then you edited the page again, so I removed your admin privileges.
>>>>>
>>>>> Was it also you (IP 71.135.45.119) who edited the anti-harassment
>>>>> policy page? Perhaps it was someone else. In any event, if
>>>>> 71.135.45.119 is reading: the text on that page is *also* the result
>>>>> of a consensus process, and should not be edited. In fact, the page
>>>>> has a banner across the top letting readers know about the policy's
>>>>> trial period, and how to contribute on Github, which is where we
>>>>> agreed to work on changes.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Tom
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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