[Noisebridge-discuss] Cooking in the space, update

Oren Beck orenbeck at gmail.com
Thu Apr 3 23:21:56 UTC 2014


YES! Hackerdom engaging in "Social Hacking" is a TOTALLY EXCELLENT path as
it solves many problems and does not endanger the survival of the spaces.

Let's make no mistake about our ethics=- We're NOT being deprecating of
anyone if we are constrained on what can be done in the NB space itself. I
will not play games here- this is a case of protecting NB while being a
force for good. If we lose NB in trying - no one gains- if we build oh- a
SRO under our non-profit umbrella?  Yeah- we may have something,,,

My safe parking for now?  However NB  consenses on creating other spaces
for eliminating social ills- will keep us on the side of Excellent Karma:>

Oren Beck

816.632.3695


On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 6:50 AM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:

> What I think is that while Noisebridge isn't the place for that
> (necessarily), I think we can either help create a place that is or direct
> people to appropriate places.  That is why Naomi suggested we reach out to
> local hostels/SROs in the hood to see what we can do to help people.  We
> are not equipped to deal with every situation but we are smart enough to
> find/create resources that are!
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I actually am too modest to talk about such things publicly (and for
>> other reason) :-D
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Will Sargent <will.sargent at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> I'm sure Praveen is just too modest to talk about how he volunteers up
>>> his couch and kitchen and lets people use his apartment as a homeless
>>> shelter.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Ceren Ercen <ceren at ercen.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mr Rodgers wouldn't put these people up in a space that doesn't belong
>>>> to him.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> <RANT>
>>>>> I got a couple of emails off-list questioning my judgment on this, so
>>>>> I thought I would follow up with some other thoughts I had...
>>>>>
>>>>> The other night, I was walking back from consensus in the cold
>>>>> downpouring rain.  I could see my breath and I was soaked.  I know for east
>>>>> coasters, this mild california weather is nothing, but the fact is, SF
>>>>> get's COLD.  It was COLD and WET.  I saw at least one person huddling in a
>>>>> corner trying to stay dry.  I looked at him and remembered the times when I
>>>>> was that cold and hungry and alone -- I was miserable, it was the worst
>>>>> lonliest feeling in the world, and the only thing I wanted was to be in a
>>>>> warm place.
>>>>>
>>>>> About a year and half ago I saw an email to nb-discuss from a young
>>>>> woman who had come to SF recently and had no place to go for the night, and
>>>>> she was escorted out in the middle of the night after being woken up from
>>>>> her sleep.  She related that she was terrified of being out in the streets
>>>>> alone at night in the mission.  I'll happily take the flak from many
>>>>> noisebridgers to help someone stay warm on a cold rainy night.  To me,
>>>>> being human is about finding ways to bend the rules and share resources for
>>>>> human benefit.
>>>>>
>>>>> You all are right, NB is not a homeless shelter.  I don't have all the
>>>>> answers.  Maybe all of you are totally in the right that we should be
>>>>> locking down.  We aren't equipped for it.  I'm not even necessarily arguing
>>>>> on these points.  What I am saying is that people at noisebridge are
>>>>> PEOPLE.  Everyone has feelings, everyone has needs, everyone needs to be
>>>>> approach with, as James Sundquist just said - with dignity and conversation
>>>>> and benefit of the doubt, and not dehumanized and stereotyped.  WHAT WOULD
>>>>> MR ROGERS DO.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or more importantly, how do we give everyone SLACK,
>>>>>
>>>>> </RANT>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Awww thanks!!!  I actually think the both of you are quite adorable
>>>>>> too!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I think will take a longer time to write up than I have at the
>>>>>> moment.  I'll save that for a future post.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In so far as the lease:  I really don't think it's as big as a
>>>>>> bogeyperson as people are worrying about.  That's not to say we should have
>>>>>> people living in elevator shafts...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But more than that, I do think we should be focused on building
>>>>>> positive consensus:  if we focus too much on rigid rules and not enough on
>>>>>> the people, then we just get bunch of miserable people:  as much as we wish
>>>>>> that legal systems could be like code and we could get it debugged and
>>>>>> working like a machine, it's just not that way.  We are people not machines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Will Sargent <will.sargent at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's pretty clear that Praveen either doesn't care or can't conceive
>>>>>>> of any repercussions to Noisebridge as a result of his actions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> People doing drugs at the space?  Fine.
>>>>>>> People offering drugs at the space?  Also fine.
>>>>>>> People sleeping at the space?  Not just fine, Praveen will actually
>>>>>>> give you an invitation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The idea that Noisebridge might actually lose its lease is just not
>>>>>>> there.  The idea that there might be people adversely affected is not
>>>>>>> there.  There's not even a balancing of good versus bad there -- Praveen
>>>>>>> thinks it's good, everyone who thinks its bad must be wrong and unexcellent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Will.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Ceren Ercen <ceren at ercen.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Blah blah I got caught living at the space and so i will ramble
>>>>>>>> enough and act confused about how this violates and endangers NB's lease,
>>>>>>>> people will get distracted discussing hypotheticals about a live-in docent.
>>>>>>>> Blah blah. "
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Praveen, you're adorable, but no, no living at the space. The lease
>>>>>>>> agreement should be the end of the story. Go start another space if you
>>>>>>>> want a hacker space with a lease that allows for a live-in person. Good
>>>>>>>> luck with that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For the record, I wouldn't consider someone for the position who
>>>>>>>> had already pointedly ignored the community rules, based solidly on the
>>>>>>>> agreement with the landlord that NO ONE LIVES IN THE SPACE.
>>>>>>>>  On Apr 2, 2014 8:16 PM, "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi to all,
>>>>>>>>> Just shortly about my involvement, I'm repeating my self but well
>>>>>>>>> looks like the old story is being loved to come out again :-) It is not
>>>>>>>>> directly connected to the current cooking in the space, so skip it if you
>>>>>>>>> are just sorting out this issue.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tastebridge was great fun and it was more or less keeping the back
>>>>>>>>> of the Noisebridge (bathrooms and kitchen) operational and because I like
>>>>>>>>> things clean and organized it was in general taken as a positive direction.
>>>>>>>>> Sometimes we had a screw ups like over fermented bottles of kombucha
>>>>>>>>> spraying people around, some stuff not cleaned on time and fridges having
>>>>>>>>> out of day items. However in general it was kept well, we did catering for
>>>>>>>>> 5 min of fame events, member meetings, underground markets etc. promoting
>>>>>>>>> our activities from that and getting also part of our budget.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Al's announcement that I'm moving out with my name in the subject
>>>>>>>>> was a good show of how not to do stuff in that time in the community,
>>>>>>>>> caused a lots of drama and Al was shouted at a lot. The main reason was
>>>>>>>>> because he did not give me time and space to talk about that, especially
>>>>>>>>> not with mediators or few members being present from both yes and no sides.
>>>>>>>>> This was really pity I think because I would definitely not endanger my
>>>>>>>>> position in the community with such a fopa especially when I had another
>>>>>>>>> options, which I had. So in another words big drama which could be sorted
>>>>>>>>> quite quietly. To be absolutely honest it was maybe better that it become a
>>>>>>>>> big issue, because I feel now much more with the people who are targeted in
>>>>>>>>> a similar manner for variety of actions even when things can be sorted in a
>>>>>>>>> reasonable way. Public mop. However again in that time, the resolution was
>>>>>>>>> found very quickly and I could continue with my activities without any
>>>>>>>>> issues, so concerning the work no harm done, for the integrity of the
>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge community not the best. Now after the years with keeping an eye
>>>>>>>>> on the activities in the space from around the world through the discuss
>>>>>>>>> and talking to friends I have still the feeling that the main target by Al
>>>>>>>>> was actually me not directly my activities, that is at least my opinion.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> After being active in many hackerspaces around the world I think
>>>>>>>>> that having separate living quarters/areas for people involved in community
>>>>>>>>> places is a good idea and I vote for that, really looking forward to help
>>>>>>>>> out the build up of by Mitch promoting hacker residency programs. If people
>>>>>>>>> live in their working places it gets often too intensive, they become too
>>>>>>>>> obsessive and if someone doesn't like someone else it is blocking the
>>>>>>>>> energies/flow in the place. So I'm now more for separate accommodation and
>>>>>>>>> living arrangements seems to me neater.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This paragraph you my skip it is too long for many just quick
>>>>>>>>> personal explanation :-) Concerning my sleeping/living in the place, it
>>>>>>>>> intensified especially at the end of my stay in SF when I have found out
>>>>>>>>> that I have to sort out with the immigration my stay because when I entered
>>>>>>>>> the USA the last time they did not give me the stamp on the border and when
>>>>>>>>> I left the time before they did not signed me off, so it looked like that
>>>>>>>>> I'm in the states nearly for 2 years which is not exactly what my PhD. visa
>>>>>>>>> for 6 months would allow. If I had to leave immediately the states I would
>>>>>>>>> have to train a new brewer in Three Stone Hearth Kitchen where I was a
>>>>>>>>> master brewer and that would be an issue, because at least month or so
>>>>>>>>> should be needed. So when I realized what issues I'm potentially facing I
>>>>>>>>> had around one week or 10 days more or less to sort that out, with possibly
>>>>>>>>> leaving the place immediately after. That cause way more than 16 hours
>>>>>>>>> working days and me staying in he place. I've stayed in the place in the
>>>>>>>>> months before over the night, which sometimes meant finishing up around 3
>>>>>>>>> am brewing class and getting up before 7 am to leave for Berkeley to brew.
>>>>>>>>> However majority of the time, and that means 5-6 days per week I was
>>>>>>>>> happily sleeping somewhere close to the beach, in the park, out of the
>>>>>>>>> town, with friends couch surfing, name it. That I liked, staying at
>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge over the night was kind of must and I tried o avoid it both
>>>>>>>>> because of potential troubles and not doing me well. Believe it or not I do
>>>>>>>>> not like to overstep if I know that the community doesn't approve of that
>>>>>>>>> in general, but well in this case I did and I appologised. However as I
>>>>>>>>> said especially at the period when I had to sort out my issues with the
>>>>>>>>> immigration I was staying around more and that was not good for anyone.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well I think that would be enough for recapitulation, have a good
>>>>>>>>> time and I hope you manage to keep the place running nice and open, based
>>>>>>>>> on consensus with active community showing the direction. It was possible
>>>>>>>>> before, it can be done again.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand
>>>>>>>>> Gandhi
>>>>>>>>>    On Thursday, April 3, 2014 3:26 AM, daravinne <
>>>>>>>>> daravinne at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>   when i first started doing 5mof a few years ago, part of the
>>>>>>>>> ritual was getting there from work and taking a nap in a comfy chair before
>>>>>>>>> i started doing event-related stuff.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> frantisek was one of the first people i ever encountered at the
>>>>>>>>> space and his implementation of tastebridge was focused and well-run.  i
>>>>>>>>> didn't really see it as a problem that he was living at the space, since i
>>>>>>>>> noticed that after he was ejected, less productive and helpful people
>>>>>>>>> replaced him, and the overall cleanliness and good working order of the
>>>>>>>>> space declined. him being there most of the time was a great benefit to the
>>>>>>>>> space, because he did genuinely care about the state of the space he was
>>>>>>>>> using and made up his use of resources by providing the intangible service
>>>>>>>>> of near-constant management.  i do read all his emails, and i agree with
>>>>>>>>> praveen that his insights are valuable, possibly more so than other people
>>>>>>>>> who are currently overseas and continue to post to the list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Johny Radio <johnyradio at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Some of the best nb hackers have slept at nb once or twice.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nb has only ITSELF to blame. When you open the door to all comers,
>>>>>>>>> don't be shocked at their behavior.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>>>>>>>> From: "Ceren Ercen" <ceren at ercen.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Jeffrey Carl Faden" <jeffreyatw at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> Cc: "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com>; "NoiseBridge
>>>>>>>>> Discuss" <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: 4/2/2014 8:53:41 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Cooking in the space, update
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Seriously.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Frantisek, you covertly squatted in the NB space, and got all
>>>>>>>>> apology-tastic when you got caught.
>>>>>>>>> You should have the sense and humility to recuse yourself from all
>>>>>>>>> topics that are addressing the serious problem of  "how do we stop people
>>>>>>>>> from trying to live in the space".  Even if it's your pet "I like to
>>>>>>>>> ferment things" workspace.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Somehow, you don't have the clue or grace to back the fuck off. So
>>>>>>>>> I will suggest it for you. Back away from this thread, no one read your
>>>>>>>>> rambling email. If you're distressed, consider that it's actions like YOURS
>>>>>>>>> that made it impossible for Noisebridge to have a pleasantly luxurious
>>>>>>>>> kitchen. Great job.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Ceren
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Jeffrey Carl Faden <
>>>>>>>>> jeffreyatw at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Reminder: biotechnologist & kvasir and hacker Frantisek Algoldor
>>>>>>>>> Apfelbeck from Kasiri, Jeju repeatedly slept in the off-limits
>>>>>>>>> south stairwell at Noisebridge, so anything he has to say about proper use
>>>>>>>>> of facilities should be taken with a grain of salt.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jeffrey
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 5:55 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <
>>>>>>>>> algoldor at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Hi to all,
>>>>>>>>> Just few notes on the kitchen, I have run and helped to equip many
>>>>>>>>> around the world and on variety of hacker events especially in last few
>>>>>>>>> years under the Food Hacking Base project which the Tastebridge was a first
>>>>>>>>> step I would say. It is interesting to see so many hackerspaces going
>>>>>>>>> forward on biotech, food hacking and brewing with Noisebridge being one of
>>>>>>>>> the forerunners with amazing set up around 2010 and 2011 and now well ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> stove - crucial. If you do not have a stove you can not cook most
>>>>>>>>> of the meals and brewing is an issue for many types of beverages, also you
>>>>>>>>> will have really problem to sterilize - pressure cooker works fine if you
>>>>>>>>> have one. Kitchen without stove is close to not being a kitchen, biotech
>>>>>>>>> applications need sterilization most of the time and heat treatment of
>>>>>>>>> ingredients is often crucial (and microwave is not a cure for everything).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> fridge - very important. To keep you perishable food ingredients,
>>>>>>>>> cultures and of course nice cold drinks it is more or less necessity, at
>>>>>>>>> least for reasonable food and beverage hacking. Kitchen without fridge is
>>>>>>>>> doable but quite an issue.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> preparation place - working bench if you like, crucial. Having
>>>>>>>>> some space to work on is crucial especially if you want to work fast and
>>>>>>>>> safe. Do not underestimate the height of the bench it hits your back if is
>>>>>>>>> too low or too high. This one is really important on hands on workshops.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> sinks - crucial. For keeping the place clean and the work flow
>>>>>>>>> continuous sinks and preferably running water are really a key. If you do
>>>>>>>>> not have it, you are in trouble. Dishwasher works too, but well sink is
>>>>>>>>> sink.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> storage - for dry ingredients especially. If you want to play
>>>>>>>>> around you need your ingredients and they need to stored properly.
>>>>>>>>> Stainless steel or glass well sealed work very well, plastic is a good
>>>>>>>>> cheap alternative. Insect and rats may be an issue if they get out of hand
>>>>>>>>> which was a case in the building many times so this one has to be kept in
>>>>>>>>> mind.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The answer to how to keep the kitchen clean is both simple and
>>>>>>>>> complicated. The way which works for me and projects in which I'm involved
>>>>>>>>> is to get together people who enjoy playing with food, hacking, brewing,
>>>>>>>>> biotech and consuming&enjoying the products of their efforts and let them
>>>>>>>>> to organize the spot, sometimes poke them a bit if the things go out of
>>>>>>>>> hand. Better environment you have from the point of view of
>>>>>>>>> equipment/infrastructure and funds, more likely you are to form a nice and
>>>>>>>>> vibrant community around it and enjoy their achievements. Note as most of
>>>>>>>>> the things in community the social interactions are really important and
>>>>>>>>> preparing and sharing the meals and drinks brings together people really
>>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best of luck with your kitchen plans, try to keep it nice and
>>>>>>>>> functional, it will pay off eventually. However even if you decide to
>>>>>>>>> destroy it, which I do not consider wise because it will not touch a core
>>>>>>>>> of the current problem, when the time comes, it will be build again, it
>>>>>>>>> will just require bit more dedicated people than if it is already standing
>>>>>>>>> and ready to be used.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sincerely from Kasiri, Jeju,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> PS Just a note, yes the Noisebridge community has a major social
>>>>>>>>> issues and to start to resolve them lots of time and energy from people who
>>>>>>>>> are socially developed and sensitive will be needed, the question for you
>>>>>>>>> now is how to get them involved and enjoy their work and being productive.
>>>>>>>>> 091 labs in Galway, Ireland are running for a brewing classes for a while
>>>>>>>>> and it is generating lots of positive interest. Add some tech related
>>>>>>>>> project like the experimental incubator build up and you can start to move
>>>>>>>>> the things forward in a sound way - friendly, social and organized.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand
>>>>>>>>> Gandhi
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Ronald Cotoni
> Systems Engineer
>
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