[Noisebridge-discuss] Cooking in the space, update

Thu Apr 3 22:50:21 UTC 2014

What I think is that while Noisebridge isn't the place for that
(necessarily), I think we can either help create a place that is or direct
people to appropriate places.  That is why Naomi suggested we reach out to
local hostels/SROs in the hood to see what we can do to help people.  We
are not equipped to deal with every situation but we are smart enough to
find/create resources that are!

On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com> wrote:

> I actually am too modest to talk about such things publicly (and for other
> reason) :-D
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Will Sargent <will.sargent at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I'm sure Praveen is just too modest to talk about how he volunteers up
>> his couch and kitchen and lets people use his apartment as a homeless
>> shelter.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Ceren Ercen <ceren at ercen.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Mr Rodgers wouldn't put these people up in a space that doesn't belong
>>> to him.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <RANT>
>>>> I got a couple of emails off-list questioning my judgment on this, so I
>>>> thought I would follow up with some other thoughts I had...
>>>>
>>>> The other night, I was walking back from consensus in the cold
>>>> downpouring rain.  I could see my breath and I was soaked.  I know for east
>>>> coasters, this mild california weather is nothing, but the fact is, SF
>>>> get's COLD.  It was COLD and WET.  I saw at least one person huddling in a
>>>> corner trying to stay dry.  I looked at him and remembered the times when I
>>>> was that cold and hungry and alone -- I was miserable, it was the worst
>>>> lonliest feeling in the world, and the only thing I wanted was to be in a
>>>> warm place.
>>>>
>>>> About a year and half ago I saw an email to nb-discuss from a young
>>>> woman who had come to SF recently and had no place to go for the night, and
>>>> she was escorted out in the middle of the night after being woken up from
>>>> her sleep.  She related that she was terrified of being out in the streets
>>>> alone at night in the mission.  I'll happily take the flak from many
>>>> noisebridgers to help someone stay warm on a cold rainy night.  To me,
>>>> being human is about finding ways to bend the rules and share resources for
>>>> human benefit.
>>>>
>>>> You all are right, NB is not a homeless shelter.  I don't have all the
>>>> answers.  Maybe all of you are totally in the right that we should be
>>>> locking down.  We aren't equipped for it.  I'm not even necessarily arguing
>>>> on these points.  What I am saying is that people at noisebridge are
>>>> PEOPLE.  Everyone has feelings, everyone has needs, everyone needs to be
>>>> approach with, as James Sundquist just said - with dignity and conversation
>>>> and benefit of the doubt, and not dehumanized and stereotyped.  WHAT WOULD
>>>> MR ROGERS DO.
>>>>
>>>> Or more importantly, how do we give everyone SLACK,
>>>>
>>>> </RANT>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Awww thanks!!!  I actually think the both of you are quite adorable
>>>>> too!
>>>>>
>>>>> What I think will take a longer time to write up than I have at the
>>>>> moment.  I'll save that for a future post.
>>>>>
>>>>> In so far as the lease:  I really don't think it's as big as a
>>>>> bogeyperson as people are worrying about.  That's not to say we should have
>>>>> people living in elevator shafts...
>>>>>
>>>>> But more than that, I do think we should be focused on building
>>>>> positive consensus:  if we focus too much on rigid rules and not enough on
>>>>> the people, then we just get bunch of miserable people:  as much as we wish
>>>>> that legal systems could be like code and we could get it debugged and
>>>>> working like a machine, it's just not that way.  We are people not machines.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Will Sargent <will.sargent at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It's pretty clear that Praveen either doesn't care or can't conceive
>>>>>> of any repercussions to Noisebridge as a result of his actions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> People doing drugs at the space?  Fine.
>>>>>> People offering drugs at the space?  Also fine.
>>>>>> People sleeping at the space?  Not just fine, Praveen will actually
>>>>>> give you an invitation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The idea that Noisebridge might actually lose its lease is just not
>>>>>> there.  The idea that there might be people adversely affected is not
>>>>>> there.  There's not even a balancing of good versus bad there -- Praveen
>>>>>> thinks it's good, everyone who thinks its bad must be wrong and unexcellent.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Will.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Ceren Ercen <ceren at ercen.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Blah blah I got caught living at the space and so i will ramble
>>>>>>> enough and act confused about how this violates and endangers NB's lease,
>>>>>>> people will get distracted discussing hypotheticals about a live-in docent.
>>>>>>> Blah blah. "
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Praveen, you're adorable, but no, no living at the space. The lease
>>>>>>> agreement should be the end of the story. Go start another space if you
>>>>>>> want a hacker space with a lease that allows for a live-in person. Good
>>>>>>> luck with that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For the record, I wouldn't consider someone for the position who had
>>>>>>> already pointedly ignored the community rules, based solidly on the
>>>>>>> agreement with the landlord that NO ONE LIVES IN THE SPACE.
>>>>>>>  On Apr 2, 2014 8:16 PM, "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi to all,
>>>>>>>> Just shortly about my involvement, I'm repeating my self but well
>>>>>>>> looks like the old story is being loved to come out again :-) It is not
>>>>>>>> directly connected to the current cooking in the space, so skip it if you
>>>>>>>> are just sorting out this issue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tastebridge was great fun and it was more or less keeping the back
>>>>>>>> of the Noisebridge (bathrooms and kitchen) operational and because I like
>>>>>>>> things clean and organized it was in general taken as a positive direction.
>>>>>>>> Sometimes we had a screw ups like over fermented bottles of kombucha
>>>>>>>> spraying people around, some stuff not cleaned on time and fridges having
>>>>>>>> out of day items. However in general it was kept well, we did catering for
>>>>>>>> 5 min of fame events, member meetings, underground markets etc. promoting
>>>>>>>> our activities from that and getting also part of our budget.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Al's announcement that I'm moving out with my name in the subject
>>>>>>>> was a good show of how not to do stuff in that time in the community,
>>>>>>>> caused a lots of drama and Al was shouted at a lot. The main reason was
>>>>>>>> because he did not give me time and space to talk about that, especially
>>>>>>>> not with mediators or few members being present from both yes and no sides.
>>>>>>>> This was really pity I think because I would definitely not endanger my
>>>>>>>> position in the community with such a fopa especially when I had another
>>>>>>>> options, which I had. So in another words big drama which could be sorted
>>>>>>>> quite quietly. To be absolutely honest it was maybe better that it become a
>>>>>>>> big issue, because I feel now much more with the people who are targeted in
>>>>>>>> a similar manner for variety of actions even when things can be sorted in a
>>>>>>>> reasonable way. Public mop. However again in that time, the resolution was
>>>>>>>> found very quickly and I could continue with my activities without any
>>>>>>>> issues, so concerning the work no harm done, for the integrity of the
>>>>>>>> Noisebridge community not the best. Now after the years with keeping an eye
>>>>>>>> on the activities in the space from around the world through the discuss
>>>>>>>> and talking to friends I have still the feeling that the main target by Al
>>>>>>>> was actually me not directly my activities, that is at least my opinion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> After being active in many hackerspaces around the world I think
>>>>>>>> that having separate living quarters/areas for people involved in community
>>>>>>>> places is a good idea and I vote for that, really looking forward to help
>>>>>>>> out the build up of by Mitch promoting hacker residency programs. If people
>>>>>>>> live in their working places it gets often too intensive, they become too
>>>>>>>> obsessive and if someone doesn't like someone else it is blocking the
>>>>>>>> energies/flow in the place. So I'm now more for separate accommodation and
>>>>>>>> living arrangements seems to me neater.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This paragraph you my skip it is too long for many just quick
>>>>>>>> personal explanation :-) Concerning my sleeping/living in the place, it
>>>>>>>> intensified especially at the end of my stay in SF when I have found out
>>>>>>>> that I have to sort out with the immigration my stay because when I entered
>>>>>>>> the USA the last time they did not give me the stamp on the border and when
>>>>>>>> I left the time before they did not signed me off, so it looked like that
>>>>>>>> I'm in the states nearly for 2 years which is not exactly what my PhD. visa
>>>>>>>> for 6 months would allow. If I had to leave immediately the states I would
>>>>>>>> have to train a new brewer in Three Stone Hearth Kitchen where I was a
>>>>>>>> master brewer and that would be an issue, because at least month or so
>>>>>>>> should be needed. So when I realized what issues I'm potentially facing I
>>>>>>>> had around one week or 10 days more or less to sort that out, with possibly
>>>>>>>> leaving the place immediately after. That cause way more than 16 hours
>>>>>>>> working days and me staying in he place. I've stayed in the place in the
>>>>>>>> months before over the night, which sometimes meant finishing up around 3
>>>>>>>> am brewing class and getting up before 7 am to leave for Berkeley to brew.
>>>>>>>> However majority of the time, and that means 5-6 days per week I was
>>>>>>>> happily sleeping somewhere close to the beach, in the park, out of the
>>>>>>>> town, with friends couch surfing, name it. That I liked, staying at
>>>>>>>> Noisebridge over the night was kind of must and I tried o avoid it both
>>>>>>>> because of potential troubles and not doing me well. Believe it or not I do
>>>>>>>> not like to overstep if I know that the community doesn't approve of that
>>>>>>>> in general, but well in this case I did and I appologised. However as I
>>>>>>>> said especially at the period when I had to sort out my issues with the
>>>>>>>> immigration I was staying around more and that was not good for anyone.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well I think that would be enough for recapitulation, have a good
>>>>>>>> time and I hope you manage to keep the place running nice and open, based
>>>>>>>> on consensus with active community showing the direction. It was possible
>>>>>>>> before, it can be done again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand
>>>>>>>> Gandhi
>>>>>>>>    On Thursday, April 3, 2014 3:26 AM, daravinne <
>>>>>>>> daravinne at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>   when i first started doing 5mof a few years ago, part of the
>>>>>>>> ritual was getting there from work and taking a nap in a comfy chair before
>>>>>>>> i started doing event-related stuff.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> frantisek was one of the first people i ever encountered at the
>>>>>>>> space and his implementation of tastebridge was focused and well-run.  i
>>>>>>>> didn't really see it as a problem that he was living at the space, since i
>>>>>>>> noticed that after he was ejected, less productive and helpful people
>>>>>>>> replaced him, and the overall cleanliness and good working order of the
>>>>>>>> space declined. him being there most of the time was a great benefit to the
>>>>>>>> space, because he did genuinely care about the state of the space he was
>>>>>>>> using and made up his use of resources by providing the intangible service
>>>>>>>> of near-constant management.  i do read all his emails, and i agree with
>>>>>>>> praveen that his insights are valuable, possibly more so than other people
>>>>>>>> who are currently overseas and continue to post to the list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Johny Radio <johnyradio at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Some of the best nb hackers have slept at nb once or twice.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nb has only ITSELF to blame. When you open the door to all comers,
>>>>>>>> don't be shocked at their behavior.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>>>>>>> From: "Ceren Ercen" <ceren at ercen.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "Jeffrey Carl Faden" <jeffreyatw at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Cc: "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com>; "NoiseBridge
>>>>>>>> Discuss" <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>>>>>>>> Sent: 4/2/2014 8:53:41 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Cooking in the space, update
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seriously.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Frantisek, you covertly squatted in the NB space, and got all
>>>>>>>> apology-tastic when you got caught.
>>>>>>>> You should have the sense and humility to recuse yourself from all
>>>>>>>> topics that are addressing the serious problem of  "how do we stop people
>>>>>>>> from trying to live in the space".  Even if it's your pet "I like to
>>>>>>>> ferment things" workspace.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Somehow, you don't have the clue or grace to back the fuck off. So
>>>>>>>> I will suggest it for you. Back away from this thread, no one read your
>>>>>>>> rambling email. If you're distressed, consider that it's actions like YOURS
>>>>>>>> that made it impossible for Noisebridge to have a pleasantly luxurious
>>>>>>>> kitchen. Great job.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Ceren
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Jeffrey Carl Faden <
>>>>>>>> jeffreyatw at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Reminder: biotechnologist & kvasir and hacker Frantisek Algoldor
>>>>>>>> Apfelbeck from Kasiri, Jeju repeatedly slept in the off-limits
>>>>>>>> south stairwell at Noisebridge, so anything he has to say about proper use
>>>>>>>> of facilities should be taken with a grain of salt.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jeffrey
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 5:55 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <
>>>>>>>> algoldor at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Hi to all,
>>>>>>>> Just few notes on the kitchen, I have run and helped to equip many
>>>>>>>> around the world and on variety of hacker events especially in last few
>>>>>>>> years under the Food Hacking Base project which the Tastebridge was a first
>>>>>>>> step I would say. It is interesting to see so many hackerspaces going
>>>>>>>> forward on biotech, food hacking and brewing with Noisebridge being one of
>>>>>>>> the forerunners with amazing set up around 2010 and 2011 and now well ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> stove - crucial. If you do not have a stove you can not cook most
>>>>>>>> of the meals and brewing is an issue for many types of beverages, also you
>>>>>>>> will have really problem to sterilize - pressure cooker works fine if you
>>>>>>>> have one. Kitchen without stove is close to not being a kitchen, biotech
>>>>>>>> applications need sterilization most of the time and heat treatment of
>>>>>>>> ingredients is often crucial (and microwave is not a cure for everything).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> fridge - very important. To keep you perishable food ingredients,
>>>>>>>> cultures and of course nice cold drinks it is more or less necessity, at
>>>>>>>> least for reasonable food and beverage hacking. Kitchen without fridge is
>>>>>>>> doable but quite an issue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> preparation place - working bench if you like, crucial. Having some
>>>>>>>> space to work on is crucial especially if you want to work fast and safe.
>>>>>>>> Do not underestimate the height of the bench it hits your back if is too
>>>>>>>> low or too high. This one is really important on hands on workshops.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sinks - crucial. For keeping the place clean and the work flow
>>>>>>>> continuous sinks and preferably running water are really a key. If you do
>>>>>>>> not have it, you are in trouble. Dishwasher works too, but well sink is
>>>>>>>> sink.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> storage - for dry ingredients especially. If you want to play
>>>>>>>> around you need your ingredients and they need to stored properly.
>>>>>>>> Stainless steel or glass well sealed work very well, plastic is a good
>>>>>>>> cheap alternative. Insect and rats may be an issue if they get out of hand
>>>>>>>> which was a case in the building many times so this one has to be kept in
>>>>>>>> mind.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The answer to how to keep the kitchen clean is both simple and
>>>>>>>> complicated. The way which works for me and projects in which I'm involved
>>>>>>>> is to get together people who enjoy playing with food, hacking, brewing,
>>>>>>>> biotech and consuming&enjoying the products of their efforts and let them
>>>>>>>> to organize the spot, sometimes poke them a bit if the things go out of
>>>>>>>> hand. Better environment you have from the point of view of
>>>>>>>> equipment/infrastructure and funds, more likely you are to form a nice and
>>>>>>>> vibrant community around it and enjoy their achievements. Note as most of
>>>>>>>> the things in community the social interactions are really important and
>>>>>>>> preparing and sharing the meals and drinks brings together people really
>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best of luck with your kitchen plans, try to keep it nice and
>>>>>>>> functional, it will pay off eventually. However even if you decide to
>>>>>>>> destroy it, which I do not consider wise because it will not touch a core
>>>>>>>> of the current problem, when the time comes, it will be build again, it
>>>>>>>> will just require bit more dedicated people than if it is already standing
>>>>>>>> and ready to be used.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sincerely from Kasiri, Jeju,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> PS Just a note, yes the Noisebridge community has a major social
>>>>>>>> issues and to start to resolve them lots of time and energy from people who
>>>>>>>> are socially developed and sensitive will be needed, the question for you
>>>>>>>> now is how to get them involved and enjoy their work and being productive.
>>>>>>>> 091 labs in Galway, Ireland are running for a brewing classes for a while
>>>>>>>> and it is generating lots of positive interest. Add some tech related
>>>>>>>> project like the experimental incubator build up and you can start to move
>>>>>>>> the things forward in a sound way - friendly, social and organized.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand
>>>>>>>> Gandhi
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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-- 
Ronald Cotoni
Systems Engineer
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