[Noisebridge-discuss] reasoning about the kitchen

Ronald Cotoni setient at gmail.com
Tue Apr 15 15:10:30 UTC 2014


You are right, I knew Matt and Jenny were involved in sudoroom.  Lets all
get together and solve these problems.  I should change the tone of my
email to be not so aggressive.

What I was hoping for is education saturation.  That means at any given
time, there will be an overwhelmingly aware people of how to keep a clean
kitchen.  The reason I suggested daily is so that once we are done doing it
daily for a while, we can pass the torch to the kitchen users and build a
bit of teamwork.


On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ron,
>
> Matt Senate co-founded sudo room and definitely is familiar with
> Noisebridge.
>
> > we need to actually have a team of people that does pretty much nothing
> but clean and keep up the space.
>
> I hope you mean that that's what it would /take/ to keep
> current-Noisebridge clean, and not what we're striving for.
>
> I hope that what we're striving for is a situation where better habits
> and perhaps some better-prioritized resources (e.g. decision about
> whether to keep the stove) tamp down the need for constant cleaning.
>
> >  It would appear that the people who want the kitchen need to
> drastically step up their game.
> > There should NEVER be dirty dishes ever.  There should NEVER be rotting
> food.
>
> I wouldn't go as far as to say "never be dirty dishes ever", but
> definitely the rotting food should never be an issue.  If you have
> rotting food it means you have a situation where there isn't enough
> shared information state within the group (kitchen group or
> Noisebridge).  I bet we can fix that.
>
> Btw... Let's all, together, work on using the word "we" when
> describing the shared use of resources that WE would like to better
> maintain.  I'm guilty of contributing to the us-versus-them mentality
> here too.  I'm going to try to stop that.
>
> --Naomi
>
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:51 AM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Every hackerspace is different since each has a different community.
>  What
> > works for one doesn't necessarily work for all.  Matt, you seem to be
> newish
> > to noisebridge.  Please read over the past few years of meeting notes and
> > the discuss list.
> >
> > Jenny you know noisebridge is a do ocracy.  Which means if you see
> something
> > that needs doing you do it.  The problem is If you see dirty dishes and
> they
> > always need doing, you won't get hacking done.   It is a complicated
> problem
> > and requires a lot of thought to fix it.  With a space the size of
> > noisebridge with as much foot traffic it gets (most likely at least 50+
> > people a day), we need to actually have a team of people that does pretty
> > much nothing but clean and keep up the space.  This includes constant
> > organization, cleaning the kitchen, cleaning the bathrooms and teaching
> > people about noisebridge.  Unfortunately we don't have enough people
> doing
> > and many people just make messes (in the kitchen, in the hack shelf area
> and
> > in the dirty shop).  They have been constant sources of contention.
> > Removing the kitchen, as most people see it, is a simple way to
> drastically
> > reduce the amount of flies, rodents, mold and other gross things in the
> > space that are serious health issues.
> >
> >
> > Now here is what I propose, there are TONS of people who want the kitchen
> > apparently.  It would appear that the people who want the kitchen need to
> > drastically step up their game.  There should NEVER be dirty dishes ever.
> > There should NEVER be rotting food.  There should be dates on things
> when we
> > put them anywhere.  There should be people cleaning their hands more
> (every
> > time they touch themselves or their clothes during use of the kitchen).
> > They should be instructed on proper food handling techniques.  Perhaps we
> > should put some printouts from http://www.foodsafety.gov/.  There is a
> > wealth of information.  If we have other people who have worked in
> > restaurants, it would be really nice if we could arrange a weekly or
> daily
> > perhaps instruction session to educate people.  Eventually the kitchen
> users
> > would be well versed in how to keep a kitchen clean and happy.  Wanna
> come
> > and do that?  Daily.  For the next month or two.  Maybe 3.  I can do that
> > every day but Friday/Saturday for a little while since I have some
> > birthday's to go to and friends in town.  Got time?
> >
> > On Apr 14, 2014 11:32 PM, "Jenny Ryan" <tunabananas at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >> Hash: SHA1
> >>
> >> http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/The_Command_Pattern
> >>
> >> ;)
> >>
> >> On Mon 14 Apr 2014 10:34:21 PM PDT, Naomi Most wrote:
> >> > Are you encouraging us to update the page with better information,
> Matt?
> >> > :)
> >> >
> >> > --Naomi
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 1:22 AM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com
> >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/The_Kitchen_Pattern
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Gregory Dillon
> >> >> <gregorydillon at gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I'm in group (5) but I've also lost hope that a talking group or
> hand
> >> >>> washing lessons will fix the problem.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> a deadline is good.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com>
> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> That.  But having proper cleaning is important.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Jessica Ross
> >> >>>> <jessica.r.ross at gmail.com>
> >> >>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Jeffrey Carl Faden
> >> >>>>> <jeffreyatw at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> And then...?
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 4:38 PM, Ronald Cotoni <
> setient at gmail.com>
> >> >>>>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> That is what I am saying.  Let's make them aware of the work
> >> >>>>>>> involved
> >> >>>>>>> to do it properly and see if they still want it.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> On Apr 14, 2014 4:35 PM, "Adrian Chadd" <adrian.chadd at gmail.com
> >
> >> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> On 14 April 2014 16:32, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>> Part of kitchen cleaning is doing it daily.  And having a
> >> >>>>>>>>> checklist.  That
> >> >>>>>>>>> is how restaurants do it.  Sometimes multiple times daily.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Sure, but they also fire you if you don't do it.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> -a
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> >>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> --
> >> >>>>> Jessica R. Ross
> >> >>>>> jessica.r.ross at gmail.com
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> --
> >> >>>> Ronald Cotoni
> >> >>>> Systems Engineer
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> Let's stay in touch.  Greg
> >> >>>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> - --
> >> Jenny
> >> http://jennyryan.net
> >> http://sudomesh.org
> >> http://thevirtualcampfire.org
> >> http://technomadic.tumblr.com
> >>
> >> `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
> >> "Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
> >> - -Laurie Anderson
> >>
> >> "Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
> >> it."
> >>  -Hannah Arendt
> >>
> >> "To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
> >> - -Stéphane Mallarmé
> >> ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
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> >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
> >>
> >> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTTNJYAAoJEHTWWpBUSeDhsa0IAJjtWsT0IwL27uvjUwTbHapt
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> >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
>
> --
> Naomi Theora Most
> naomi at nthmost.com
> +1-415-728-7490
>
> skype: nthmost
>
> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>



-- 
Ronald Cotoni
Systems Engineer
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