[Noisebridge-discuss] think bigger

Sun Apr 6 00:27:52 UTC 2014

Yeah. It would have really been helpful if Praveen had said "for the
sex-positive Arse Electronika event" and not, you know, like "people
getting fucked on a table by a dildo and spanked by bondage clowns" happens
out of the blue because it's Wednesday or something. Given that "Is it okay
to sell meth at Noisebridge?" is a muddy issue with some people (pretty
sure the obvious answer should be "No"), I don't blame Hannah for jumping
to the conclusion she did.

This may make me uncool in the eyes of "Noisebridge culture", but if that
sort of thing happened just out of the blue at a hackerspace, I would leave
and not come back also. For one, it would make the table too wobbly to work
on from my laptop.

On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 4:07 PM, William Sargent <will.sargent at gmail.com>wrote:

> So... what Praveen said in Praveen's context was reasonable.  What Hannah
> said in Hannah's context is reasonable.  But to you, Praveen's context is
> reasonable and Hannah's is not, because... Noisebridge culture.  Even
> Noisebridge has limits: sex acts, nudity and clowns still require special
> arrangement.
>
> I think Praveen can be capable of providing his own context, and Hannah
> doesn't have to try and interpret for him.
>
> On Apr 5, 2014, at 3:55 PM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Actually, I think Hannah was unfair.  Rather than try to find out what
> > the context was, she immediately moved to criticize it.
> >
> > --Naomi
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 3:50 PM, William Sargent <will.sargent at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> Naomi, this is unfair.  Hannah was perfectly correct.  Praveen
> presented a sex act in Noisebridge out of context of a presentation of Sex
> and Technology, and Hannah read it as he presented it.  If there's no
> warning and no discussion, then there's no consent to being involved in
> those activities.
> >>
> >> I remember people being distinctly uncomfortable with "sexy clowns"
> being presented at Five Minutes of Fame, and that had no actual nudity
> involved.
> >>
> >> Will.
> >>
> >> On Apr 5, 2014, at 3:41 PM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yes, I think Hannah did nail it.
> >>>
> >>> She successfully demonstrated that she, as well as you, have no
> >>> recollection of what Noisebridge culture was, and have only knee-jerk
> >>> reactions to provide instead of actual understanding.
> >>>
> >>> --Naomi
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 1:11 PM, Tom Lowenthal <me at tomlowenthal.com>
> wrote:
> >>>> On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 7:33 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>> In that, I submit that our pains have not to do with mismanagment,
> but
> >>>>> that we need to grow into our next phase for an even larger and more
> dynamic
> >>>>> community:  I don't know what it's going to look like or what the
> outcome
> >>>>> will be, but as everyone is shuffling about in this latest re-org, I
> think
> >>>>> it's important to think bigger and more radical and more creative
> and more
> >>>>> inclusive.  As a hackerspace, we can go in directions no other space
> or
> >>>>> collective on the planet is capable of at the moment.  Keep it mind
> as we
> >>>>> fight our battles, whatever side of drama you wind up on.
> >>>>
> >>>> Hannah wrote:
> >>>>> Praveen, this is not as simple as an issue of "inclusion" and a
> happy little
> >>>>> collective.  The truth of the matter is that when you include some
> people,
> >>>>> you cause others to feel threatened & unsafe and thereby exclude
> them.
> >>>>> People who are high at Noisebridge tend to cross boundaries, and one
> of
> >>>>> those boundaries is often the bodily autonomy of women at the space.
>  San
> >>>>> Francisco is full of places where people can go to see folks screw in
> >>>>> public, Noisebridge does not need to be one of them.  If you want to
> display
> >>>>> your bondage technology, go to Wicked Grounds!  If you want to get
> high in
> >>>>> public, go to Dolores Park!  The place full of collectively owned
> powertools
> >>>>> is not the correct venue for those activities.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I think Hannah pretty much nailed it.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I think that Noisebridge is a hackerspace, and our stated goal is to
> >>>> be a place where diverse sorts of people feel safe and comfortable
> >>>> working on and talking about their technical-creative projects. I'm
> >>>> quite certain that other things can happen at Noisebridge; many do.
> >>>> When we're thinking about another activity, considering whether it's a
> >>>> good fit for Noisebridge, the most important question we should ask
> >>>> is:
> >>>>
> >>>>> "Does this enable or interfere with Noisebridge as place where
> diverse sorts
> >>>>> of people feel safe and comfortable working on and talking about
> their technical-
> >>>>> -creative projects.?"
> >>>>
> >>>> Our answer to this question should be the most important factor in
> >>>> determining what to do. If there's something that makes people feel
> >>>> *less* safe and comfortable, or makes it *harder* to work on
> >>>> technical-creative projects, we should recognise that -- although this
> >>>> activity may be totally reasonable in general -- Noisebridge isn't the
> >>>> place for it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Hugs & kisses,
> >>>> -Tom
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Naomi Theora Most
> >>> naomi at nthmost.com
> >>> +1-415-728-7490
> >>>
> >>> skype: nthmost
> >>>
> >>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Naomi Theora Most
> > naomi at nthmost.com
> > +1-415-728-7490
> >
> > skype: nthmost
> >
> > http://twitter.com/nthmost
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
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