[Noisebridge-discuss] think bigger

Mon Apr 7 15:14:41 UTC 2014

Nope, Will's right. A woman freaked out by a confrontational sex act in
front of her is not under some sort of obligation to try to excuse or
contextualize it before she's allowed to have any emotional reaction. As
Praveen's email read standing alone, it required insider historical
knowledge of Noisebridge to not be, frankly, deeply uncomfortable with the
event as presented. Even I cringed.

Just as tits-grabbing on entrance to a house or party isn't excuseable by
saying "oh, if you weren't so new to this group, you'd get it, haha, it's a
running  joke", this, too, as it was presented out of context, looked
pretty horrific.

Please be a little more aware of context when writing your emails -
presenting this as a Wacky Thing That Noisebridge Does and Is Intrinsic To
Our Character in your enthusiasm in listing such things doesn't excuse how
deeply uncomfortable the mention can make any someone who isn't "in the
know", and she never deserves to be intimidated like that. Any hypothetical
"she" is not required to read the whole of noisebridge-archive to say "wow,
that thing you described just now really would make me upset and
uncomfortable". That is an unreasonable burden.

On Apr 5, 2014 6:55 PM, "Naomi Most" <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually, I think Hannah was unfair.  Rather than try to find out what
> the context was, she immediately moved to criticize it.
>
> --Naomi
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 3:50 PM, William Sargent <will.sargent at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Naomi, this is unfair.  Hannah was perfectly correct.  Praveen presented
> a sex act in Noisebridge out of context of a presentation of Sex and
> Technology, and Hannah read it as he presented it.  If there's no warning
> and no discussion, then there's no consent to being involved in those
> activities.
> >
> > I remember people being distinctly uncomfortable with "sexy clowns"
> being presented at Five Minutes of Fame, and that had no actual nudity
> involved.
> >
> > Will.
> >
> > On Apr 5, 2014, at 3:41 PM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Yes, I think Hannah did nail it.
> >>
> >> She successfully demonstrated that she, as well as you, have no
> >> recollection of what Noisebridge culture was, and have only knee-jerk
> >> reactions to provide instead of actual understanding.
> >>
> >> --Naomi
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 1:11 PM, Tom Lowenthal <me at tomlowenthal.com>
> wrote:
> >>> On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 7:33 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>> In that, I submit that our pains have not to do with mismanagment, but
> >>>> that we need to grow into our next phase for an even larger and more
> dynamic
> >>>> community:  I don't know what it's going to look like or what the
> outcome
> >>>> will be, but as everyone is shuffling about in this latest re-org, I
> think
> >>>> it's important to think bigger and more radical and more creative and
> more
> >>>> inclusive.  As a hackerspace, we can go in directions no other space
> or
> >>>> collective on the planet is capable of at the moment.  Keep it mind
> as we
> >>>> fight our battles, whatever side of drama you wind up on.
> >>>
> >>> Hannah wrote:
> >>>> Praveen, this is not as simple as an issue of "inclusion" and a happy
> little
> >>>> collective.  The truth of the matter is that when you include some
> people,
> >>>> you cause others to feel threatened & unsafe and thereby exclude them.
> >>>> People who are high at Noisebridge tend to cross boundaries, and one
> of
> >>>> those boundaries is often the bodily autonomy of women at the space.
>  San
> >>>> Francisco is full of places where people can go to see folks screw in
> >>>> public, Noisebridge does not need to be one of them.  If you want to
> display
> >>>> your bondage technology, go to Wicked Grounds!  If you want to get
> high in
> >>>> public, go to Dolores Park!  The place full of collectively owned
> powertools
> >>>> is not the correct venue for those activities.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I think Hannah pretty much nailed it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I think that Noisebridge is a hackerspace, and our stated goal is to
> >>> be a place where diverse sorts of people feel safe and comfortable
> >>> working on and talking about their technical-creative projects. I'm
> >>> quite certain that other things can happen at Noisebridge; many do.
> >>> When we're thinking about another activity, considering whether it's a
> >>> good fit for Noisebridge, the most important question we should ask
> >>> is:
> >>>
> >>>> "Does this enable or interfere with Noisebridge as place where
> diverse sorts
> >>>> of people feel safe and comfortable working on and talking about
> their technical-
> >>>> -creative projects.?"
> >>>
> >>> Our answer to this question should be the most important factor in
> >>> determining what to do. If there's something that makes people feel
> >>> *less* safe and comfortable, or makes it *harder* to work on
> >>> technical-creative projects, we should recognise that -- although this
> >>> activity may be totally reasonable in general -- Noisebridge isn't the
> >>> place for it.
> >>>
> >>> Hugs & kisses,
> >>> -Tom
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Naomi Theora Most
> >> naomi at nthmost.com
> >> +1-415-728-7490
> >>
> >> skype: nthmost
> >>
> >> http://twitter.com/nthmost
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Naomi Theora Most
> naomi at nthmost.com
> +1-415-728-7490
>
> skype: nthmost
>
> http://twitter.com/nthmost
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
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