[Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge-discuss Digest, Vol 76, Issue 24

Mon Feb 24 22:07:07 UTC 2014

Re:Messy Noisebridge. Especially Kitchen (Garrett Smith)

Hi to all,
issues with kitchen are common thought the hackerspaces. This facility and toilets are the best indicators of the health of the community, removing them does not heal the real cause. Most of the people do realize the importance of kitchens and what can be done in them for the community, it takes time to find system to make it work properly and it is most of the time continuous effort to keep it in a decent manner. Well equipment kitchen is a gift for the community and great way how to bring people together, improve their eating habits and diet - Noisebridge is not exception to that.

Doing regular events and checks lets say twice per week should take care about the majority of issues, do not expect that everyone will clean after themselves, it would be nice but someone will have to chip extra energy to it, that applies to nearly any activity in a community based place as you well know based on experience.

In this case talking to the people who are now more active in the kitchen would be a good idea, they posted recently to the list and they seemed to be quite enthusiastic I'm quite pretty sure that they will listen. Bring the issue up and discuss it and lets see what can be the ways how to improve it. Removing plates, stoves and other facilities is avoiding the problem and basically destroying the concept of the place - you need heat sources to prepare simply proper food and serve them on a non disposable plates which is more environmental friendly at least to my opinion. Removing those would just compromise the facility, decrease a chances to do something cool and avoid a real problem, you will take out tools and equipment for food and beverage preparation/hacking.

Have a good time and I suggest to talk to the people who are now around and trying actively use the kitchen, it takes time to get in to it in the community based place but it is worth of it, have seen lovely creations many times all around the world and it may result in a really cool projects both in the hackerspaces and international hacker happenings.

Sincerely from Jeju, South Korea,

Frantisek 

Email from Garrett:

I'm here to teach JavaScript class, as usual, on Sunday morning.

The kitchen has been getting more and more disgusting. Today, bowl of
beans/soup, bread all over the place, some of it nibbled on by humans
and probably rats. I did notice a woman recently cooking in the
kitchen. It is not Cynthia, who also does more cleaning than cooking,
but was someone else.

Each person must take care of his or her own mess. Leave it cleaner
than you found it.

The mixed smell of pee, old food, and I don't know what permeates throughout.

The problem stems from general slobbery, unfortunately. Here are a few
proposed solutions:
1) A ticket system, either as an app or wiki page. When someone leaves
a mess out, issue a ticket to that person. Same for sleepers. The way
to get the ticket to go away is to perform 1hr's worth of cleaning
service, to be performed within 1 month, or be banned.
2) Hire cleaning service.
3) Do nothing.

A ticket system: pros/cons
PRO: Discourages people from being messy
PRO: If they are, makes them make up for it in a big way.
PRO: Encourages social/peer regulation. Not authoritarian.
CON: Requires creating a Wiki page or app. Wiki pages are editable.
CON: Might be uncomfortable to issue tickets.

Hire cleaning service.
PRO: It works.
CON: It does not address the cause of the problem.
CON: It unfairly benefits those who make messes.
CON: It costs money.
-- 
Garrett
@xkit
ChordCycles.com
garretts.github.io

Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck

biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker

http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org

"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

On Monday, February 24, 2014 9:00 PM, "noisebridge-discuss-request at lists.noisebridge.net" <noisebridge-discuss-request at lists.noisebridge.net> wrote:

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

   1. Messy Noisebridge. Especially Kitchen (Garrett Smith)
   2. Re: I asked Josh/N0_Hat to leave (Howard Tsu)
   3. 90 Day "Ban" on banning people. (John Ellis)
   4. Re: 90 Day "Ban" on banning people. (Adrian Chadd)
   5. Re: 90 Day "Ban" on banning people. (Ronald Cotoni)
   6. Re: 90 Day "Ban" on banning people. (Hannah Grimm)
   7. Re: 90 Day "Ban" on banning people. (The Batkid)
   8. A proposal regarding RAYC in the space. (jarrod hicks)
   9. Re: Messy Noisebridge. Especially Kitchen (Al Sweigart)
  10. Re: 90 Day "Ban" on banning people. (Al Sweigart)
  11. Re: 90 Day "Ban" on banning people. (Oren Beck)
  12. ToorCamp 2014 (Ben Kochie)
  13. Re: 90 Day "Ban" on banning people. (maestro)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 09:22:52 -0800
From: Garrett Smith <dhtmlkitchen at gmail.com>
To: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net"
    <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Messy Noisebridge. Especially Kitchen
Message-ID:
    <CABZUbM3aD5cm11-um=+YSE2HuniTcsMOK_QbxqcSeQV4-U=HAw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I'm here to teach JavaScript class, as usual, on Sunday morning.

The kitchen has been getting more and more disgusting. Today, bowl of
beans/soup, bread all over the place, some of it nibbled on by humans
and probably rats. I did notice a woman recently cooking in the
kitchen. It is not Cynthia, who also does more cleaning than cooking,
but was someone else.

Each person must take care of his or her own mess. Leave it cleaner
than you found it.

The mixed smell of pee, old food, and I don't know what permeates throughout.

The problem stems from general slobbery, unfortunately. Here are a few
proposed solutions:
1) A ticket system, either as an app or wiki page. When someone leaves
a mess out, issue a ticket to that person. Same for sleepers. The way
to get the ticket to go away is to perform 1hr's worth of cleaning
service, to be performed within 1 month, or be banned.
2) Hire cleaning service.
3) Do nothing.

A ticket system: pros/cons
PRO: Discourages people from being messy
PRO: If they are, makes them make up for it in a big way.
PRO: Encourages social/peer regulation. Not authoritarian.
CON: Requires creating a Wiki page or app. Wiki pages are editable.
CON: Might be uncomfortable to issue tickets.

Hire cleaning service.
PRO: It works.
CON: It does not address the cause of the problem.
CON: It unfairly benefits those who make messes.
CON: It costs money.
-- 
Garrett
@xkit
ChordCycles.com
garretts.github.io

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 10:05:37 -0800
From: Howard Tsu <howard.tsu at gmail.com>
To: Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com>
Cc: NoiseBridge Discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] I asked Josh/N0_Hat to leave
Message-ID:
    <CAGzq0tVZWVWSfTQ1bj4ip7kfenstmB1b3SeZAk2Lm3825HCVYQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

As clarification, the encounter was a disagreement in which improper
handling of situation was enacted, and fault was distributed to both
parties. The e-mail was not in regards to sleeping at the space. When you
asked him to leave, Tom, was it caused by another disagreement or was it
built up from the previous e-mail between him and another member?

On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:

> I was actually going to confront him today as well.  Thank you Tom!
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 2:22 PM, Tom Lowenthal <me at tomlowenthal.com>wrote:
>
>> Earlier this week, someone informed me that they had found Josh asleep at
>> the space and asked him to leave. I just met Josh, and he acknowledged that
>> he was asked to leave but refused to comply.
>>
>> I have asked Josh to leave and not to return until 6:30pm on Tuesday
>> 2014-02-25. If you see Josh at Noisebridge before then, I ask that you
>> remind him to leave. I'd also appreciate it if you let me know that you saw
>> him there.
>>
>> I have proposed banning Josh from Noisebridge. My proposal is on the
>> Current Consensus Items page. There is also a pull request against the
>> Bureaucracy repo.
>>
>> -Tom
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ronald Cotoni
> Systems Engineer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 12:07:47 -0800
From: John Ellis <neurofog at gmail.com>
To: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net"
    <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] 90 Day "Ban" on banning people.
Message-ID:
    <CAEKig-hhoQChg539J5NaY1YiaytZMfGpD4QvyLDYPW=tvGeOTA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

This is getting to be way too much drama.

IMO We should put all permanent bans on hold for 90 days. Having people
take a break for a period of time (Up to 180 Days) is still an available
option.

-John

[1] https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 12:09:32 -0800
From: Adrian Chadd <adrian.chadd at gmail.com>
To: John Ellis <neurofog at gmail.com>
Cc: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net"
    <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] 90 Day "Ban" on banning people.
Message-ID:
    <CAJ-VmokbwnER0z77-6-UuChKCtjfSFacLLeKCRkKN8qA6TwQzQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 23 February 2014 12:07, John Ellis <neurofog at gmail.com> wrote:
> This is getting to be way too much drama.
>
> IMO We should put all permanent bans on hold for 90 days. Having people take
> a break for a period of time (Up to 180 Days) is still an available option.
>
> -John
>
> [1] https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items

What's the drama?

-a

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 13:57:25 -0800
From: Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com>
To: Adrian Chadd <adrian.chadd at gmail.com>
Cc: NoiseBridge Discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] 90 Day "Ban" on banning people.
Message-ID:
    <CADpY2qs49Dpb=3v1odsxcGQvsPzrWhUOEZVKMhpAV_fJrEPbJQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Right.  I think we need a more automated approach.
On Feb 23, 2014 12:09 PM, "Adrian Chadd" <adrian.chadd at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 23 February 2014 12:07, John Ellis <neurofog at gmail.com> wrote:
> > This is getting to be way too much drama.
> >
> > IMO We should put all permanent bans on hold for 90 days. Having people
> take
> > a break for a period of time (Up to 180 Days) is still an available
> option.
> >
> > -John
> >
> > [1] https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items
>
> What's the drama?
>
>
> -a
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 14:35:38 -0800
From: Hannah Grimm <dharlette at gmail.com>
To: Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com>
Cc: NoiseBridge Discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] 90 Day "Ban" on banning people.
Message-ID:
    <CAL44oTE781UVvBE7Xb-8zfxjSmL1djM-2phxfWn2jvz7OFA-pQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I am strongly opposed to us hamstringing our ability to remove potentially
toxic individuals from our midst.  If you think someone shouldn't be
banned, go to the meeting and argue in their favor.

On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com> wrote:

> Right.  I think we need a more automated approach.
> On Feb 23, 2014 12:09 PM, "Adrian Chadd" <adrian.chadd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 23 February 2014 12:07, John Ellis <neurofog at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > This is getting to be way too much drama.
>> >
>> > IMO We should put all permanent bans on hold for 90 days. Having people
>> take
>> > a break for a period of time (Up to 180 Days) is still an available
>> option.
>> >
>> > -John
>> >
>> > [1] https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items
>>
>> What's the drama?
>>
>>
>> -a
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 18:28:54 -0500
From: "The Batkid" <batkid at gmx.com>
To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] 90 Day "Ban" on banning people.
Message-ID: <20140223232854.299720 at gmx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I do not think that makes much sense.

A large fraction of the bans proposed are from a person who was living in the space.
There is a very low chance of them passing.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Ellis
Sent: 02/23/14 12:07 PM
To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] 90 Day "Ban" on banning people.

This is getting to be way too much drama. 

IMO We should put all permanent bans on hold for 90 days. Having people take a break for a period of time (Up to 180 Days) is still an available option.

-John

[1] https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items
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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 19:04:18 -0800
From: jarrod hicks <hicksu at gmail.com>
To: NoiseBridge Discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] A proposal regarding RAYC in the space.
Message-ID:
    <CADzk9RXnx6X86iqGUD9yCZw8fqxj3FaQ3SHK2GkvE-VBJT9thg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Howdy y'all.

I have been working through my conflicted feelings regarding RAYC's
actions and what the council could possibly do regarding them. For
reference:

https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2014_02_11

https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2014_02_18

I have come up with a draft of a proposal that I hope may lead to a
satisfactory resolution for the Noisebridge community.

I believe that RAYC's actions put the community at risk and are
reasonable grounds for a ban, if that is how it must be. However, RAYC
has built a considerable amount of goodwill by their work in the space
to maintain and improve it. It would be a bummer to remove someone
from Noisebridge whom has demonstrated such enthusiasm for it, if they
are still eager to hack at Noisebridge.

I suggest that RAYC's goodwill in the space is enough to buy them a
second chance to be part of Noisebridge and that this goodwill is now
spent. I propose that RAYC be allowed to enter the space and
participate in the community if they agree to the following
conditions:

1. If RAYC sleeps (napping and so on) again at Noisebridge or its
adjacent spaces, they will be automatically banned.

This one is for RAYC. While some flexibility around the allowance of
sleeping exists, in practice, at Noisebridge. RAYC has broken the
trust extended to anyone who works at Noisebridge to use the space
excellently. By agreeing to this, RAYC agrees that it is reasonable
that the community now holds them to a higher standard due to their
actions and that they will meet that expectation.

2. RAYC will take a lead to educate, in an excellent manner, those who
will attempt to set up residency at Noisebridge explaining that such
actions are unacceptable.

This one is for Noisebridge. RAYC has significant knowledge of
Noisebridge and uses the space often enough for them to be in a good
position to identify and educate heavy and excessive users about our
community standards regarding living in the space. This does not grant
RAYC any more authority than any one of us has in the space and many
members already do this. Taking a lead on this task is a good start to
rebuilding the trust and goodwill of the community toward RAYC. In
time, and pending good results, the council may remove this explicit
requirement from RAYC. Of course, if RAYC fails to demonstrate a good
faith effort in this duty, a ban may be called at the council's
discretion. Agreement to this means that RAYC will, and is
specifically required to, work to protect the space from those who
would take advantage of its openness and RAYC will update the
community in this regard, when necessary.

If RAYC agrees to these conditions, it is my hope that the council
would withdraw the proposal to ban them. Hopefully, Noisebridge and
RAYC would both benefit from this arrangement.

Does this sound reasonable and appropriate?

Thank you for reading this.

Postscript: I think a temporary ban, without clear standards or
conditions to be met leaves Noisebridge in a similar position to what
it was in before, upon the banned persons return.

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 19:39:55 -0800
From: Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com>
To: Garrett Smith <dhtmlkitchen at gmail.com>
Cc: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net"
    <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Messy Noisebridge. Especially
    Kitchen
Message-ID:
    <CAPyZGS=HR4dY5_GvvOzSzBM01Dy_avCZbqQkHUA2b7DKqUeT4w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

The kitchen is a habitual problem at Noisebridge. In my opinion, having the
stove invites more problems than benefit. Historically the people who use
the kitchen cannot keep it clean, food is routinely left out for the mice,
and many people use it to cook their personal meals as a part of living at
Noisebridge. When I use the floor cleaner at the space, the kitchen
requires the most frequent cleaning.

Getting rid of the stove, but keeping the fridge, oven, and microwave would
go a long way to improving the space.

-Al

On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 9:22 AM, Garrett Smith <dhtmlkitchen at gmail.com>wrote:

> I'm here to teach JavaScript class, as usual, on Sunday morning.
>
> The kitchen has been getting more and more disgusting. Today, bowl of
> beans/soup, bread all over the place, some of it nibbled on by humans
> and probably rats. I did notice a woman recently cooking in the
> kitchen. It is not Cynthia, who also does more cleaning than cooking,
> but was someone else.
>
> Each person must take care of his or her own mess. Leave it cleaner
> than you found it.
>
> The mixed smell of pee, old food, and I don't know what permeates
> throughout.
>
> The problem stems from general slobbery, unfortunately. Here are a few
> proposed solutions:
> 1) A ticket system, either as an app or wiki page. When someone leaves
> a mess out, issue a ticket to that person. Same for sleepers. The way
> to get the ticket to go away is to perform 1hr's worth of cleaning
> service, to be performed within 1 month, or be banned.
> 2) Hire cleaning service.
> 3) Do nothing.
>
> A ticket system: pros/cons
> PRO: Discourages people from being messy
> PRO: If they are, makes them make up for it in a big way.
> PRO: Encourages social/peer regulation. Not authoritarian.
> CON: Requires creating a Wiki page or app. Wiki pages are editable.
> CON: Might be uncomfortable to issue tickets.
>
> Hire cleaning service.
> PRO: It works.
> CON: It does not address the cause of the problem.
> CON: It unfairly benefits those who make messes.
> CON: It costs money.
> --
> Garrett
> @xkit
> ChordCycles.com
> garretts.github.io
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 19:44:22 -0800
From: Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com>
To: The Batkid <batkid at gmx.com>
Cc: noisebridge-discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] 90 Day "Ban" on banning people.
Message-ID:
    <CAPyZGSnzV43MRqQ7EGE51sKyXof+gAbGFGqoMX6Ohpu+OOy9AQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

This is a sample of people who have been banned from the space (from the
https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/86 page):

"This guy went into the back classroom and took Rayc's wallet out of his
backpack. Rayc saw him with the wallet in his hand and the guy tried to say
it was his. He then started running towards the door and was tackled by
Jake."

"Banned by consensus 2013-10-01 for physical assaulting another Noisebridge
user."

"Stole from the member's shelves and from me."

"Several days later he returned to Noisebridge with his hand shoved in a
gym bag, claiming he had as he continued pushing past people to get into
the main space, screaming constantly about killing eveyone and then
himself."

These are not people you want to have stay away from the space for "a
while". You want them permanently gone.

And anyway, I see no reason why the "drama" from proposing a person be
banned for 180 days will be any less than proposing a person be banned
permanently.

-Al

On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 3:28 PM, The Batkid <batkid at gmx.com> wrote:

> I do not think that makes much sense.
>
> A large fraction of the bans proposed are from a person who was living in
> the space.
> There is a very low chance of them passing.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: John Ellis
>
> Sent: 02/23/14 12:07 PM
>
> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>
> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] 90 Day "Ban" on banning people.
>
> This is getting to be way too much drama.
>
> IMO We should put all permanent bans on hold for 90 days. Having people
> take a break for a period of time (Up to 180 Days) is still an available
> option.
>
> -John
>
> [1] https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 14:01:29 +0800
From: Oren Beck <orenbeck at gmail.com>
To: NoiseBridge Discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] 90 Day "Ban" on banning people.
Message-ID:
    <CAHdyy+8js1yGhCkzr_r8faHA9tLGHzTd-Ht3sM1Rs-oyeywfZQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Speaking as a distant observer yet "spiritually" invested in Noisebridge,
I ask us a sober question.

ARE we being faithful to the vision  that Mitch and the other founders
wanted when they began this??
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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 00:13:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Ben Kochie <ben at nerp.net>
To: congress at lists.noisebridge.net
Cc: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] ToorCamp 2014
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.10.1402240005080.6297 at chef.nerp.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII

Hey everyone who likes to go camping and hack.

ToorCamp[0] will be this year, July 9-13.  At the same location as it was 
last time, Hobuck Beach Resort in Neah Bay, WA.

I'll be traveling to ToorCamp with Milliways folks.  I'm planning to bring 
back the DramaCafe[1] working together with the Milliways crew.

I'm planning to organize most of the shopping and equipment work out of 
Seattle so we don't have to haul as much stuff from CA.

If you're interesed in helping out with the kitchen, let me know.

Otherwise, start planning your ToorCamp projects!

[0]: http://toorcamp.org/node/32087
[1]: https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Toorcamp_2012/DramaCafe

-ben

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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 00:42:47 -0800
From: maestro <maestro415 at gmail.com>
To: Oren Beck <orenbeck at gmail.com>
Cc: Noisebridge-discuss <Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] 90 Day "Ban" on banning people.
Message-ID:
    <CANe-2tfcmgNmaOOCdwTQY2ma06tOEnUxNi7+A+OmM1N7W2mi7Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

+1...
sadly those with the 'faith' are thinning in sentient attendance
and/or quietly observing from the forest(s) until the hitler youth are
burned up once again.
so goeth the cycle.

On 2/23/14, Oren Beck <orenbeck at gmail.com> wrote:
> Speaking as a distant observer yet "spiritually" invested in Noisebridge,
> I ask us a sober question.
>
> ARE we being faithful to the vision  that Mitch and the other founders
> wanted when they began this??
>

-- 

*~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...*

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End of Noisebridge-discuss Digest, Vol 76, Issue 24
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