[Noisebridge-discuss] History of my member page on the wiki

Sat Feb 1 19:46:29 UTC 2014

Nil Nisi Bonum...

Oren Beck

816.632.3695

On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 2:48 AM, VonGuard <vonguard at gmail.com> wrote:

> Wow, Leif, that is some truly amazing radical inclusion you're practicing
> all the way from Germany. Glad you can find time in your busy schedule to
> denigrate someone 5,000 miles away involved in a hackerspace you can't
> attend regularly.
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 9:28 AM, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> At this point Leif is willfully pretending the situation is something
>> it's not after it's been directly explained. Here're the facts:
>>
>> * Ron became a member at last Tuesday's meeting after his application had
>> been in the binder for four weeks and it passed consensus.
>> * The next day some anonymous wiki vandal marked Ron's page as not being
>> a member. There have been a lot of troll edits on the wiki in the last few
>> days (more than just the usual spambots).
>> * Ron said he hadn't been blocked, referring to the previous day's
>> consensus decision.
>>
>> "He explicitly stated that it never happened." Leif, even if Ron was
>> referring to the events years in the past rather than *the previous day*,
>> he would still be right: he withdrew his application, it was never brought
>> to consensus and you never actually blocked it.
>>
>> -Al
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Leif Ryge <leif at synthesize.us> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 05:38:23PM -0800, Al Sweigart wrote:
>>> > On a related note: This is a perfect example of how consensus stifles
>>> > debate & communication instead of encouraging it: Leif didn't even
>>> have to
>>> > block, he just had to say he would. That's enough to cause someone to
>>> > quietly withdraw their proposal and no one else would ever know about.
>>> >
>>> > -Al
>>>
>>> I think it was an example of consensus working well, until it was
>>> circumvented.
>>>
>>> In my opinion it was unnecessary to spend everyone's time (including
>>> plenty of
>>> people who don't/didn't know him) talking about it, but Ron or anyone
>>> else
>>> could always have brought it up at a meeting if they wanted input from
>>> more
>>> people.
>>>
>>> > On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > > Point of fact: Leif never blocked his membership. Ron withdrew it.
>>>
>>> He withdrew it because I told him (and others) that I was blocking it.
>>>
>>> > > Three people asked Leif why he said he'd block his membership;
>>> apparently
>>> > > they disagreed with his "Ron is a troll" accusation and probably
>>> thought he
>>> > > would be fine for membership.
>>>
>>> Actually people who I think are mutual friends of Ron's and mine, after
>>> asking
>>> me why I'd blocked his membership, essentially told me that they thought
>>> my
>>> assessment was correct (that he was likely to escalate potential
>>> conflicts in
>>> Noisebridge discussions for entertainment value).
>>>
>>> > > I don't think Ron forgot it, but I can see why you are asking if he
>>> did:
>>> > > it's a two year old accusation.
>>>
>>> He didn't just omit it, though: He explicitly stated that it never
>>> happened. I
>>> think he was assuming (somewhat correctly) that I wasn't paying close
>>> enough
>>> attention to Noisebridge lately and might not notice.
>>>
>>> ~leif
>>>
>>> > > -Al
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 5:03 PM, bfb <bfb at riseup.net> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >> Omitting this information from discussion is classical "not on good
>>> > >> faith". Ron, did you forget that Leif had blocked your membership?
>>> > >>
>>> > >> -Kevin
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >> -------- Original message --------
>>> > >> From: Al Sweigart
>>> > >> Date:01/30/2014 09:47 (GMT-08:00)
>>> > >> To: Leif Ryge
>>> > >> Cc: NoiseBridge Discuss
>>> > >> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] History of my member page on the
>>> wiki
>>> > >>
>>> > >> That was years ago, Leif. You're not exactly up on current events at
>>> > >> Noisebridge. https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2014_01_28
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >> On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 4:47 AM, Leif Ryge <leif at synthesize.us>
>>> wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 07:53:01PM -0800, Ronald Cotoni wrote:
>>> > >>> > I have no idea who changed it but my membership was never
>>> blocked.
>>> > >>>  [...]
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Huh? How can you say your membership was never blocked? We had a
>>> > >>> conversation
>>> > >>> about why I wasn't comfortable with you being a member, which
>>> resulted
>>> > >>> in you
>>> > >>> withdrawing your membership application. I'm quite certain that you
>>> > >>> interpreted
>>> > >>> this conversation (as I did) as me blocking your membership,
>>> because at
>>> > >>> least 3
>>> > >>> other people asked me later why I'd blocked your membership.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> My primary reason for blocking your membership, as you'll recall,
>>> was
>>> > >>> that I
>>> > >>> believe your participation in Noisebridge meetings and discussions
>>> is
>>> > >>> largely
>>> > >>> disingenuous and "for the lulz" (read: you're a troll). Your claim
>>> above
>>> > >>> that
>>> > >>> your membership was "never blocked" after you'd specifically
>>> complained
>>> > >>> to
>>> > >>> other people that it was is a good example of this assessment being
>>> > >>> correct.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> ~leif
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> _______________________________________________
>>> > >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> > >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> > >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>
>>> > >
>>>
>>
>>
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