[Noisebridge-discuss] Feminist Book Club For Men: tomorrow 7pm was: The Nuclear Option

Charles Tang cjtang1 at asu.edu
Fri Jan 17 07:54:56 UTC 2014


Can we apply the same policy to the aquarium?


On 16 January 2014 21:37, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:

> Lee, you are clueless of just how bad and petty your emails to the list
> make you look. I've emailed you privately about this, and now I'm telling
> you publicly: Stop digging. Just let this issue go.
>
> -Al
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 9:00 PM, Lee Sonko <lee at lee.org> wrote:
>
>> Hannah, I say again, please reread my emails and your response and then
>> try responding again. I suggest you wait a day to cool off before hitting
>> the Send button.
>>
>> I repeat: I hope that the feminist book club for men meeting went well.
>> Did it? I haven't seen anything on the list.
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Hannah Grimm <dharlette at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Lee,
>>> No one is obliged to interact with you.  You misbehaved on the wiki, and
>>> lost privileges.  You then engaged in a campaign of harassment against Tom
>>> that was vastly out of proportion with the issue at hand, in which you
>>> continuously sent him passive-aggressive emails, looked up his number
>>> online so you could call him on his personal phone without invitation, and
>>> dragged unrelated targets into your obsession with him.  Danny already gave
>>> you your wiki privileges back, so at this point you are just trying to
>>> demand the attention of someone who has made it perfectly clear that they
>>> do not want to engage with you.
>>>
>>> I'd like to remind you of some of the information in our anti-harassment
>>> policy: "Harassment includes offensive verbal comments related to gender,
>>> gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, physical
>>> appearance, body size, race, religion, sexual images in public spaces, *deliberate
>>> intimidation, stalking, following*, harassing photography or recording,
>>> sustained disruption of talks or other events, inappropriate physical
>>> contact, and unwelcome sexual attention...*People asked to stop any
>>> harassing behavior are expected to comply immediately*."
>>>
>>> This is me telling you that what you're doing is harassment, and asking
>>> you to stop.  Do not contact him again.
>>>
>>> Hannah
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Snail <snailtsunami at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So, you think he's doing a poor job of it and want to volunteer to run
>>>> the book club discussion yourself? Or do you have another nominee in mind?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 10:57 PM, Lee Sonko <lee at lee.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hannah writes:
>>>>> -------- Original Message -------------
>>>>>  I think you need to back off here.  Replying to a thread about
>>>>> something awesome and very much needed at Noisebridge to dredge up a
>>>>> personal grievance you have with an individual is an obvious and deliberate
>>>>> attempt to stir up drama and to drag the feminist book club down with it.
>>>>>  That is not cool.  The way you describe your interactions with Tom (calling
>>>>> & emailing him repeatedly, despite him making it clear that he doesn't want
>>>>> to speak with you) is a set of behavior that frankly would incredibly freak
>>>>> me out if you were doing it to me.  If feminism is "the belief that men and
>>>>> women should have equal rights and opportunities" then I hope you don't do
>>>>> this to ladies because I'd be seriously threatened by this kind of behavior.
>>>>> -------- End of Original Message ------
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom changed my rights on the wiki and then refused to discuss the
>>>>> matter, or any matter, repeatedly. That was my first and only interaction
>>>>> with him despite me trying nicely to resolve the situation. I am receiving
>>>>> a clear signal that he is not a good communicator.  That directly
>>>>> relates to him organizing a feminist book club; I suppose it actually
>>>>> only relates to him facilitating a discussion, not organizing, but the two
>>>>> tasks often go hand-in-hand. If he is petty and non-communicative with me,
>>>>> a virtual stranger, I don't believe he would make a good leader for a book
>>>>> club founded on discussing the sometimes strained communication between
>>>>> people of different genders. Hence my comments.
>>>>>
>>>>> >calling & emailing him repeatedly, despite him making it clear that
>>>>> he doesn't want to speak with you)  is a set of behavior that frankly
>>>>> >would incredibly freak me out if you were doing it to me
>>>>>
>>>>> Please reread my original email, that is not what I wrote, nor is that
>>>>> what happened. He used his powerful rights on the wiki against my account
>>>>> and then (as now) refuses to communicate about the exercise of those
>>>>> rights. The issue has, sadly, never been resolved because Tom
>>>>> continues to not communicate with me. He told me to stop calling on
>>>>> the phone so I stopped. He hasn't responded to any of my emails except
>>>>> those I've CCed to the list. So that's how I communicate with him. I'm
>>>>> playing a game of his making. I remain open to discussion and resolution.
>>>>> Tom seems to remain closed. That seems like a poor choice for an organizer
>>>>> and perhaps facilitator of a feminist book club for men.
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope that the feminist book club for men meeting went well. Did it?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Lee
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 6:32 PM, Hannah Grimm <dharlette at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Lee,
>>>>>> I think you need to back off here.  Replying to a thread about
>>>>>> something awesome and very much needed at Noisebridge to dredge up a
>>>>>> personal grievance you have with an individual is an obvious and deliberate
>>>>>> attempt to stir up drama and to drag the feminist book club down with it.
>>>>>>  That is not cool.  The way you describe your interactions with Tom
>>>>>> (calling & emailing him repeatedly, despite him making it clear that he
>>>>>> doesn't want to speak with you) is a set of behavior that frankly would
>>>>>> incredibly freak me out if you were doing it to me.  If feminism is "the
>>>>>> belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities" then
>>>>>> I hope you don't do this to ladies because I'd be seriously threatened by
>>>>>> this kind of behavior.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hannah
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 9:23 AM, jarrod hicks <hicksu at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Organizing an event at Noisebridge does not require that the
>>>>>>> organizer
>>>>>>> be the best person for the job (far from it), only that the person be
>>>>>>> willing to do the work necessary to make the event/class/meeting
>>>>>>> happen; 'and proud we are of all of them'. Even if in this case by
>>>>>>> "not the best" you may actually mean "I think you are possibly the
>>>>>>> worst", events/classes/meetings are educational for their facilitator
>>>>>>> as well and so not being good at something is still a great
>>>>>>> prerequisite for organizing getting together with others to learn.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> -Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails
>>>> ............. _ at y
>>>> http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
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