[Noisebridge-discuss] Feminist Book Club For Men: tomorrow 7pm was: The Nuclear Option

Hannah Grimm dharlette at gmail.com
Sat Jan 18 01:11:33 UTC 2014


Lee,
No amount of time or distance is going to make harassment acceptable.  You
have been told to stop.  Stop.


On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 11:54 PM, Charles Tang <cjtang1 at asu.edu> wrote:

> Can we apply the same policy to the aquarium?
>
>
> On 16 January 2014 21:37, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Lee, you are clueless of just how bad and petty your emails to the list
>> make you look. I've emailed you privately about this, and now I'm telling
>> you publicly: Stop digging. Just let this issue go.
>>
>> -Al
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 9:00 PM, Lee Sonko <lee at lee.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hannah, I say again, please reread my emails and your response and then
>>> try responding again. I suggest you wait a day to cool off before hitting
>>> the Send button.
>>>
>>> I repeat: I hope that the feminist book club for men meeting went well.
>>> Did it? I haven't seen anything on the list.
>>>
>>> Lee
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Hannah Grimm <dharlette at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lee,
>>>> No one is obliged to interact with you.  You misbehaved on the wiki,
>>>> and lost privileges.  You then engaged in a campaign of harassment against
>>>> Tom that was vastly out of proportion with the issue at hand, in which you
>>>> continuously sent him passive-aggressive emails, looked up his number
>>>> online so you could call him on his personal phone without invitation, and
>>>> dragged unrelated targets into your obsession with him.  Danny already gave
>>>> you your wiki privileges back, so at this point you are just trying to
>>>> demand the attention of someone who has made it perfectly clear that they
>>>> do not want to engage with you.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to remind you of some of the information in our
>>>> anti-harassment policy: "Harassment includes offensive verbal comments
>>>> related to gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation,
>>>> disability, physical appearance, body size, race, religion, sexual images
>>>> in public spaces, *deliberate intimidation, stalking, following*,
>>>> harassing photography or recording, sustained disruption of talks or other
>>>> events, inappropriate physical contact, and unwelcome sexual attention...*People
>>>> asked to stop any harassing behavior are expected to comply immediately*
>>>> ."
>>>>
>>>> This is me telling you that what you're doing is harassment, and asking
>>>> you to stop.  Do not contact him again.
>>>>
>>>> Hannah
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Snail <snailtsunami at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So, you think he's doing a poor job of it and want to volunteer to run
>>>>> the book club discussion yourself? Or do you have another nominee in mind?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 10:57 PM, Lee Sonko <lee at lee.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hannah writes:
>>>>>> -------- Original Message -------------
>>>>>>  I think you need to back off here.  Replying to a thread about
>>>>>> something awesome and very much needed at Noisebridge to dredge up a
>>>>>> personal grievance you have with an individual is an obvious and deliberate
>>>>>> attempt to stir up drama and to drag the feminist book club down with it.
>>>>>>  That is not cool.  The way you describe your interactions with Tom (calling
>>>>>> & emailing him repeatedly, despite him making it clear that he doesn't want
>>>>>> to speak with you) is a set of behavior that frankly would incredibly freak
>>>>>> me out if you were doing it to me.  If feminism is "the belief that men and
>>>>>> women should have equal rights and opportunities" then I hope you don't do
>>>>>> this to ladies because I'd be seriously threatened by this kind of behavior.
>>>>>> -------- End of Original Message ------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom changed my rights on the wiki and then refused to discuss the
>>>>>> matter, or any matter, repeatedly. That was my first and only interaction
>>>>>> with him despite me trying nicely to resolve the situation. I am receiving
>>>>>> a clear signal that he is not a good communicator.  That directly
>>>>>> relates to him organizing a feminist book club; I suppose it
>>>>>> actually only relates to him facilitating a discussion, not organizing, but
>>>>>> the two tasks often go hand-in-hand. If he is petty and non-communicative
>>>>>> with me, a virtual stranger, I don't believe he would make a good leader
>>>>>> for a book club founded on discussing the sometimes strained communication
>>>>>> between people of different genders. Hence my comments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >calling & emailing him repeatedly, despite him making it clear that
>>>>>> he doesn't want to speak with you)  is a set of behavior that
>>>>>> frankly
>>>>>> >would incredibly freak me out if you were doing it to me
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please reread my original email, that is not what I wrote, nor is
>>>>>> that what happened. He used his powerful rights on the wiki against my
>>>>>> account and then (as now) refuses to communicate about the exercise of
>>>>>> those rights. The issue has, sadly, never been resolved because Tom
>>>>>> continues to not communicate with me. He told me to stop calling on
>>>>>> the phone so I stopped. He hasn't responded to any of my emails except
>>>>>> those I've CCed to the list. So that's how I communicate with him. I'm
>>>>>> playing a game of his making. I remain open to discussion and resolution.
>>>>>> Tom seems to remain closed. That seems like a poor choice for an organizer
>>>>>> and perhaps facilitator of a feminist book club for men.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope that the feminist book club for men meeting went well. Did it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lee
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 6:32 PM, Hannah Grimm <dharlette at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey Lee,
>>>>>>> I think you need to back off here.  Replying to a thread about
>>>>>>> something awesome and very much needed at Noisebridge to dredge up a
>>>>>>> personal grievance you have with an individual is an obvious and deliberate
>>>>>>> attempt to stir up drama and to drag the feminist book club down with it.
>>>>>>>  That is not cool.  The way you describe your interactions with Tom
>>>>>>> (calling & emailing him repeatedly, despite him making it clear that he
>>>>>>> doesn't want to speak with you) is a set of behavior that frankly would
>>>>>>> incredibly freak me out if you were doing it to me.  If feminism is "the
>>>>>>> belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities" then
>>>>>>> I hope you don't do this to ladies because I'd be seriously threatened by
>>>>>>> this kind of behavior.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hannah
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 9:23 AM, jarrod hicks <hicksu at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Organizing an event at Noisebridge does not require that the
>>>>>>>> organizer
>>>>>>>> be the best person for the job (far from it), only that the person
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> willing to do the work necessary to make the event/class/meeting
>>>>>>>> happen; 'and proud we are of all of them'. Even if in this case by
>>>>>>>> "not the best" you may actually mean "I think you are possibly the
>>>>>>>> worst", events/classes/meetings are educational for their
>>>>>>>> facilitator
>>>>>>>> as well and so not being good at something is still a great
>>>>>>>> prerequisite for organizing getting together with others to learn.
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> -Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails
>>>>> ............. _ at y
>>>>> http://obamaischeckingyouremail.tumblr.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20140117/8d351599/attachment-0003.html>


More information about the Noisebridge-discuss mailing list