[Noisebridge-discuss] Trimmed off the board list

rachel lyra hospodar rachelyra at gmail.com
Wed Mar 26 22:35:04 UTC 2014

It's mean spirited to say I respect you even though I completely disagree
with everything you are doing, and you categorically dismiss all concerns
while paying them lip service?

It's sarcastic for me to describe things as I see them? How else will we
reach an understanding if you do not seek to understand my point of view? I
seek to understand yours as well.

My research indicates there is no way to discuss difficult topics without
seeming to be difficult to someone who disagrees with you. Without using
humor it comes off angry, with humor it comes off sarcastic.  This is the
abyss at the bottom of Tone Argument Canyon... there is categorically no
appropriate way to disagree while female (kind of like driving while black)
without being an Obnoxious Strident Person.

This is why it is so important to construct decision making systems that
accommodate the fact that people disagree, rather than to attempt to create
a space where nobody disagrees - I call that an echo chamber.

On Mar 26, 2014 11:59 AM, "Al Sweigart" <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:

> Rachel, do you think your mean-spirited sarcasm is inviting to dialog? Are
> you interested in having a dialog?
> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 2:40 PM, rachel lyra hospodar <rachelyra at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>> I wonder, Al, if you have any thoughts on the ideological tension between
>> your statements 'community buy in is key' and 'not everyone will be
>> completely satisfied'
>> One thing 100 percent consensus neatly solves is taking the factionalism
>> out of who gets to have their way. Everyone does, not just whoever is in
>> power.
>> You are clearly delineating that you are in power here, Al. Is your goal
>> to use your power to get your way? From my point of view, that is what you
>> are trying to do here. This could be out of ignorance, blindness,
>> stubbornness, or a willfull belief that Father Al knows best.
>> You'll forgive me for finding the most hope in believing you to be, in
>> this case, ignorant and stubborn.... since I sure don't believe in a
>> paternalistic approach to life. I don't think Father Al knows best. I do
>> respect you for trying, but call me crazy optimistic for hoping for you to
>> grow, change.  Maybe you should try putting up signs for meth like you did
>> for graffiti... that worked, right?
>> I gotta take a break now, kids, I just admitted in public to respecting
>> Al.
>> R.
>> On Mar 26, 2014 11:30 AM, "Al Sweigart" <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Madelynn and Tom articulated this better last night at the meeting, but
>>> I want to reiterate for people just following the list that these changes
>>> are not out of nowhere. We have been talking with individuals about how to
>>> fix Noisebridge's problems well before the election. Community buy-in is
>>> key. I don't want to dismiss the election results out of hand; it's not
>>> fair to the members who voted after being told the board would take an
>>> active hand at space improvements. This also doesn't mean the board is
>>> accountable to no one, but it does mean that not everyone will be
>>> completely satisfied with decisions being made (just like any group of
>>> people).
>>> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 2:16 PM, rachel lyra hospodar <
>>> rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I would like to apologize, it appears I was mistaken. It seems that the
>>>> list was not trimmed, but that discussion of these fundamental changes did
>>>> not take place online any place I am able to find, follow, or see, as a
>>>> former board member, council member, member member, throbbing gristle
>>>> member.
>>>> Community buy in for shifts is really key, people. The bigger the shift
>>>> the more important this piece of the puzzle is.
>>>> It's never too late to work towards consensus.
>>>> R.
>>>> On Mar 26, 2014 6:08 AM, "rachel lyra hospodar" <rachelyra at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I think it's interesting that sometime in the last month or so,
>>>>> someone has for the first time since i was added in 2010, gone through the
>>>>> board email list and trimmed out former board members.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
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