[Noisebridge-discuss] Trimmed off the board list

Dennis Gentry dennis.gentry at gmail.com
Thu Mar 27 00:18:44 UTC 2014

Hey Rachel and Father Al,

[Perhaps I'm feeding a troll, but in case not:]

Noisebridge apparently needs a benevolent Father.  I look forward to a
space that more people are comfortable in, and I wouldn't normally pipe up,
but I really appreciate Al's efforts to improve the place.

It doesn't seem worthwhile to re-vote for/against the board via -discuss,
and Rachel, I doubt you'll get anything close to the number of votes you'd
need for a recall, but maybe I'm wrong, and we'll all learn something
either way.

100% Consensus or whatever you call the past process has resulted in a foul
place I can't bring my kids to, and am not even really inclined to go
myself.  And I'm an excellent hacker and mentor, so it's Noisebridge's loss
(even if I am not modest).


On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 4:29 PM, rachel lyra hospodar
<rachelyra at gmail.com>wrote:

> Let's be crystal clear - I am not confused.
> I have not confused 'I disagree with you' with anything else.
> I am trying to communicate with you that many people hear your stance as
> 'your disagreements are irrelevant'.
> If my tone is valid then yours is too, I see no way around it. I am
> scrupulously polite in a precise correlation to whether I find myself in a
> space where I feel scrupulously respected.
> Perhaps instead of telling me how you do respect me, you might listen to
> some advice on how to behave respectfully. I know, I haven't been behaving
> perfectly.  It is an attempt to demonstrate to you the precise impact of
> your historic behavior of same nature.
> We can continue to have a dick jousting contest around whose opinion is
> more valid but I have to warn you - i am a cyborg. mine is a strap on that
> I researched heavily and had to wade through a great deal of bigotry to
> get, so it will probably outlast yours.
> Yes, that was a metaphor. No, it was not scrupulously respectful. The fire
> metaphor was, but you didn't even respond to it so I am trying different
> tactics to Hack You. I want to install this Empathy Module but I can't find
> the slot. I'll just leave it on the table here, feel free to ask for
> documentation if you decide you want to use it.
> R.
> On Mar 26, 2014 1:06 PM, "Al Sweigart" <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
>> It was mostly the "Father Al" cracks. Maybe I should just lighten up
>> though, but that and the other stuff kind of stung.
>> Just to reassure you Rachel, I am well aware of the bullshit that women
>> who speak up have to put up with. I'm not trying to tone police you, but
>> when I say your words hurt me I'm telling you how you've made me feel and
>> that I take you just as seriously whether or not you are mocking me, so
>> please don't go the mocking route.
>> Again, I am sincere when I want to hear out people who disagree with me.
>> It can be easy to read sarcasm or insincerity into text, so I'm saying that
>> as plainly as possible. I am not paying "lip service". I have my own views
>> and will probably disagree with you, but I don't want anyone to confuse "I
>> disagree with you" with "you can't speak, shut up".
>> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 3:35 PM, rachel lyra hospodar <
>> rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> It's mean spirited to say I respect you even though I completely
>>> disagree with everything you are doing, and you categorically dismiss all
>>> concerns while paying them lip service?
>>> It's sarcastic for me to describe things as I see them? How else will we
>>> reach an understanding if you do not seek to understand my point of view? I
>>> seek to understand yours as well.
>>> My research indicates there is no way to discuss difficult topics
>>> without seeming to be difficult to someone who disagrees with you. Without
>>> using humor it comes off angry, with humor it comes off sarcastic.  This is
>>> the abyss at the bottom of Tone Argument Canyon... there is categorically
>>> no appropriate way to disagree while female (kind of like driving while
>>> black) without being an Obnoxious Strident Person.
>>> This is why it is so important to construct decision making systems that
>>> accommodate the fact that people disagree, rather than to attempt to create
>>> a space where nobody disagrees - I call that an echo chamber.
>>> R.
>>> On Mar 26, 2014 11:59 AM, "Al Sweigart" <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Rachel, do you think your mean-spirited sarcasm is inviting to dialog?
>>>> Are you interested in having a dialog?
>>>> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 2:40 PM, rachel lyra hospodar <
>>>> rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I wonder, Al, if you have any thoughts on the ideological tension
>>>>> between your statements 'community buy in is key' and 'not everyone will be
>>>>> completely satisfied'
>>>>> One thing 100 percent consensus neatly solves is taking the
>>>>> factionalism out of who gets to have their way. Everyone does, not just
>>>>> whoever is in power.
>>>>> You are clearly delineating that you are in power here, Al. Is your
>>>>> goal to use your power to get your way? From my point of view, that is what
>>>>> you are trying to do here. This could be out of ignorance, blindness,
>>>>> stubbornness, or a willfull belief that Father Al knows best.
>>>>> You'll forgive me for finding the most hope in believing you to be, in
>>>>> this case, ignorant and stubborn.... since I sure don't believe in a
>>>>> paternalistic approach to life. I don't think Father Al knows best. I do
>>>>> respect you for trying, but call me crazy optimistic for hoping for you to
>>>>> grow, change.  Maybe you should try putting up signs for meth like you did
>>>>> for graffiti... that worked, right?
>>>>> I gotta take a break now, kids, I just admitted in public to
>>>>> respecting Al.
>>>>> R.
>>>>> On Mar 26, 2014 11:30 AM, "Al Sweigart" <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Madelynn and Tom articulated this better last night at the meeting,
>>>>>> but I want to reiterate for people just following the list that these
>>>>>> changes are not out of nowhere. We have been talking with individuals about
>>>>>> how to fix Noisebridge's problems well before the election. Community
>>>>>> buy-in is key. I don't want to dismiss the election results out of hand;
>>>>>> it's not fair to the members who voted after being told the board would
>>>>>> take an active hand at space improvements. This also doesn't mean the board
>>>>>> is accountable to no one, but it does mean that not everyone will be
>>>>>> completely satisfied with decisions being made (just like any group of
>>>>>> people).
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 2:16 PM, rachel lyra hospodar <
>>>>>> rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> I would like to apologize, it appears I was mistaken. It seems that
>>>>>>> the list was not trimmed, but that discussion of these fundamental changes
>>>>>>> did not take place online any place I am able to find, follow, or see, as a
>>>>>>> former board member, council member, member member, throbbing gristle
>>>>>>> member.
>>>>>>> Community buy in for shifts is really key, people. The bigger the
>>>>>>> shift the more important this piece of the puzzle is.
>>>>>>> It's never too late to work towards consensus.
>>>>>>> R.
>>>>>>> On Mar 26, 2014 6:08 AM, "rachel lyra hospodar" <rachelyra at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I think it's interesting that sometime in the last month or so,
>>>>>>>> someone has for the first time since i was added in 2010, gone through the
>>>>>>>> board email list and trimmed out former board members.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
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