[Noisebridge-discuss] why would hackers come to noisebridge?

Hannah Grimm dharlette at gmail.com
Fri Mar 14 15:40:33 UTC 2014


I want you all to know that the concept of "Time taken to ban Patrick Keys"
as a hackerspace-efficiency metric has completely made my day.


On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 12:05 AM, John Ellis <neurofog at gmail.com> wrote:

> Considering he was the first to get formally banned from Noisebridge. It
> didn't take long for a group of us to decide he wasn't welcome in the
> space, and we'd ask him to leave if we saw him. The actual consensus came
> about a week or two after that.
>
> How long did he last at Hacker Dojo?
>
> -John
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Dan Cote <terminationshok at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I like how "time taken to ban Patrick Keyes" has become a metric for
>> hackerspace administrative efficiency.
>>
>> Does Hacker Dojo ban many people?
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Dean Mao <dean.mao at hackerdojo.com>wrote:
>>
>>> The Hacker Dojo is arguably younger than noisebridge and probably less
>>> "membership-oriented" compared to noisebridge, but our membership has
>>> skyrocketed to the point where it's hard to find an empty chair during
>>> normal business hours.  We still have the occasional sleeper at night, but
>>> because we are so fast at banning people, that problem usually doesn't
>>> persist.  When we banned patrick keyes, it only required a meeting of 3-4
>>> people and it was a done deal.  You guys should definitely reconsider how
>>> you ban people.  We didn't have to ask all of our directors for ban
>>> approval to make it happen.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hep, your description of Noisebridge is spot on.
>>>>
>>>> Here's the difference that I think an active board can make:
>>>> Noisebridge has taken to the extreme a philosophy that we shouldn't ban
>>>> people or that we should give bad behavior effectively unlimited second
>>>> chances. (The first person we banned was Patrick Keyes for sexually
>>>> harassing multiple women, and even then it was pulling teeth to get him
>>>> banned and not just suspended.) Consensus is what affords this: a tiny
>>>> minority can block, delay, and in general abuse process to wear out their
>>>> opponents.
>>>>
>>>> A board does not have to endlessly talk about policy and makes
>>>> decisions by majority vote: a board can set policy and *gasp* make
>>>> decisions. This includes suspending and banning people for bad behavior.
>>>>
>>>> (Obligatory footnote about abuse of power, "define bad behavior",
>>>> tyranny of the majority, etc.)
>>>>
>>>> Consensus is what holds Noisebridge hostage: a 1% can have more power
>>>> just because they have more volume, and meanwhile we can't get many new
>>>> members because we are so afraid of extending this power to new people.
>>>>
>>>> -Al
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I am with what hep said.  I am also with Naomi.  This is a
>>>>> hackerspace.  Lets hack the system and figure out how to solve problems.  I
>>>>> am also with Al that I feel sad that UU had to even exist because
>>>>> noisebridge was not safe enough or good enough.  I also understand that
>>>>> some people just like working with other females and don't even want to
>>>>> bother at this stage of their lives.  I just feel it was mostly a response
>>>>> to Noisebridge not being safe and not the latter.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am openly biased towards anarchism and lack of top-down control.
>>>>>> But we can't keep shouting down the idea of "oversight" to address
>>>>>> problems that Noisebridge has had for YEEAAARRRSSS when we've
>>>>>> certainly given the Noisebridge traditional methods that long to fix
>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the record, I don't agree with the idea of direct
>>>>>> people-management or in changing the way we arrive at decisions at
>>>>>> Noisebridge.  My idea of a positive change would be to have the board
>>>>>> managing facilities and facilitating participation -- e.g. forming
>>>>>> working groups.  I believe these improvements will make a lot of the
>>>>>> other crap die down naturally.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And as it turns out, that's what we're going to do first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:46 AM, hep <dis at gruntle.org> wrote:
>>>>>> > And that would be different from what noisebridge has had in the
>>>>>> last 5yr
>>>>>> > how? as it stands, many women do not feel safe at noisebridge
>>>>>> because of
>>>>>> > sexual assault and the past somewhat failure to deal with it in a
>>>>>> manner
>>>>>> > where women felt safe and listened to at nb. many valuable
>>>>>> contributing
>>>>>> > people have left nb because of its failure to address major
>>>>>> infrastructure
>>>>>> > problems. if having a more active board helps to stop sexual abuse
>>>>>> and makes
>>>>>> > the culture more welcoming to those who would positively
>>>>>> contribute, then i
>>>>>> > am 100% down with active management. i would like noisebridge to be
>>>>>> > somewhere i can bring friends to interest them in hacking, bring my
>>>>>> > childrens' school championship robotics team to inspire them to the
>>>>>> next
>>>>>> > victory, not a place where i am fearful to go on my own because
>>>>>> there are no
>>>>>> > protections or infrastructure to ensure basic safety.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > -hep
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:09 AM, Torrie Fischer <
>>>>>> tdfischer at hackerbots.net>
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> I think it is important to note that in the context of a
>>>>>> hackerspace,
>>>>>> >> there is
>>>>>> >> a difference between managing the infrastructure and managing the
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> >> who
>>>>>> >> hack on the infrastructure.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> From experience, just saying "active management" easily leads to
>>>>>> bad times
>>>>>> >> and, uh, rather verbose mailing list threads.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> > --
>>>>>> > hep
>>>>>> > hepic photography || www.hepic.net
>>>>>> >     dis at gruntle.org || 415 867 9472
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Naomi Theora Most
>>>>>> naomi at nthmost.com
>>>>>> +1-415-728-7490
>>>>>>
>>>>>> skype: nthmost
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ronald Cotoni
>>>>> Systems Engineer
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dean Mao
>>> dean.mao at hackerdojo.com
>>> Come visit us, we love new people!
>>> www.hackerdojo.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
>
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