[Noisebridge-discuss] why would hackers come to noisebridge?

Hannah Grimm dharlette at gmail.com
Fri Mar 14 17:12:48 UTC 2014


HAhahahhahah.  Well volunteered, Naomi!  <3


On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:

> That /is/ pretty amazing.
>
> I hope someone comes up with a theory-based way to calculate this metric.
>
> Like, "based on $HACKERSPACE's gender diversity index, choice of
> governance model, percentage participation by membership, and
> percentage of activity on the mailing list, $HACKERSPACE has an
> expected Time To Ban Patrick Keys of X weeks, 2 days, and 3 hours."
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 8:40 AM, Hannah Grimm <dharlette at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I want you all to know that the concept of "Time taken to ban Patrick
> Keys"
> > as a hackerspace-efficiency metric has completely made my day.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 12:05 AM, John Ellis <neurofog at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Considering he was the first to get formally banned from Noisebridge. It
> >> didn't take long for a group of us to decide he wasn't welcome in the
> space,
> >> and we'd ask him to leave if we saw him. The actual consensus came
> about a
> >> week or two after that.
> >>
> >> How long did he last at Hacker Dojo?
> >>
> >> -John
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Dan Cote <terminationshok at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I like how "time taken to ban Patrick Keyes" has become a metric for
> >>> hackerspace administrative efficiency.
> >>>
> >>> Does Hacker Dojo ban many people?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Dean Mao <dean.mao at hackerdojo.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The Hacker Dojo is arguably younger than noisebridge and probably less
> >>>> "membership-oriented" compared to noisebridge, but our membership has
> >>>> skyrocketed to the point where it's hard to find an empty chair during
> >>>> normal business hours.  We still have the occasional sleeper at
> night, but
> >>>> because we are so fast at banning people, that problem usually doesn't
> >>>> persist.  When we banned patrick keyes, it only required a meeting of
> 3-4
> >>>> people and it was a done deal.  You guys should definitely reconsider
> how
> >>>> you ban people.  We didn't have to ask all of our directors for ban
> approval
> >>>> to make it happen.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hep, your description of Noisebridge is spot on.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here's the difference that I think an active board can make:
> >>>>> Noisebridge has taken to the extreme a philosophy that we shouldn't
> ban
> >>>>> people or that we should give bad behavior effectively unlimited
> second
> >>>>> chances. (The first person we banned was Patrick Keyes for sexually
> >>>>> harassing multiple women, and even then it was pulling teeth to get
> him
> >>>>> banned and not just suspended.) Consensus is what affords this: a
> tiny
> >>>>> minority can block, delay, and in general abuse process to wear out
> their
> >>>>> opponents.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A board does not have to endlessly talk about policy and makes
> >>>>> decisions by majority vote: a board can set policy and *gasp* make
> >>>>> decisions. This includes suspending and banning people for bad
> behavior.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> (Obligatory footnote about abuse of power, "define bad behavior",
> >>>>> tyranny of the majority, etc.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Consensus is what holds Noisebridge hostage: a 1% can have more power
> >>>>> just because they have more volume, and meanwhile we can't get many
> new
> >>>>> members because we are so afraid of extending this power to new
> people.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Al
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am with what hep said.  I am also with Naomi.  This is a
> >>>>>> hackerspace.  Lets hack the system and figure out how to solve
> problems.  I
> >>>>>> am also with Al that I feel sad that UU had to even exist because
> >>>>>> noisebridge was not safe enough or good enough.  I also understand
> that some
> >>>>>> people just like working with other females and don't even want to
> bother at
> >>>>>> this stage of their lives.  I just feel it was mostly a response to
> >>>>>> Noisebridge not being safe and not the latter.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I am openly biased towards anarchism and lack of top-down control.
> >>>>>>> But we can't keep shouting down the idea of "oversight" to address
> >>>>>>> problems that Noisebridge has had for YEEAAARRRSSS when we've
> >>>>>>> certainly given the Noisebridge traditional methods that long to
> fix
> >>>>>>> things.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> For the record, I don't agree with the idea of direct
> >>>>>>> people-management or in changing the way we arrive at decisions at
> >>>>>>> Noisebridge.  My idea of a positive change would be to have the
> board
> >>>>>>> managing facilities and facilitating participation -- e.g. forming
> >>>>>>> working groups.  I believe these improvements will make a lot of
> the
> >>>>>>> other crap die down naturally.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> And as it turns out, that's what we're going to do first.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:46 AM, hep <dis at gruntle.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>> > And that would be different from what noisebridge has had in the
> >>>>>>> > last 5yr
> >>>>>>> > how? as it stands, many women do not feel safe at noisebridge
> >>>>>>> > because of
> >>>>>>> > sexual assault and the past somewhat failure to deal with it in a
> >>>>>>> > manner
> >>>>>>> > where women felt safe and listened to at nb. many valuable
> >>>>>>> > contributing
> >>>>>>> > people have left nb because of its failure to address major
> >>>>>>> > infrastructure
> >>>>>>> > problems. if having a more active board helps to stop sexual
> abuse
> >>>>>>> > and makes
> >>>>>>> > the culture more welcoming to those who would positively
> >>>>>>> > contribute, then i
> >>>>>>> > am 100% down with active management. i would like noisebridge to
> be
> >>>>>>> > somewhere i can bring friends to interest them in hacking, bring
> my
> >>>>>>> > childrens' school championship robotics team to inspire them to
> the
> >>>>>>> > next
> >>>>>>> > victory, not a place where i am fearful to go on my own because
> >>>>>>> > there are no
> >>>>>>> > protections or infrastructure to ensure basic safety.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > -hep
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:09 AM, Torrie Fischer
> >>>>>>> > <tdfischer at hackerbots.net>
> >>>>>>> > wrote:
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> I think it is important to note that in the context of a
> >>>>>>> >> hackerspace,
> >>>>>>> >> there is
> >>>>>>> >> a difference between managing the infrastructure and managing
> the
> >>>>>>> >> people
> >>>>>>> >> who
> >>>>>>> >> hack on the infrastructure.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> From experience, just saying "active management" easily leads to
> >>>>>>> >> bad times
> >>>>>>> >> and, uh, rather verbose mailing list threads.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> > --
> >>>>>>> > hep
> >>>>>>> > hepic photography || www.hepic.net
> >>>>>>> >     dis at gruntle.org || 415 867 9472
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>>>>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Naomi Theora Most
> >>>>>>> naomi at nthmost.com
> >>>>>>> +1-415-728-7490
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> skype: nthmost
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Ronald Cotoni
> >>>>>> Systems Engineer
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Dean Mao
> >>>> dean.mao at hackerdojo.com
> >>>> Come visit us, we love new people!
> >>>> www.hackerdojo.com
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Naomi Theora Most
> naomi at nthmost.com
> +1-415-728-7490
>
> skype: nthmost
>
> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>
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