[Noisebridge-discuss] mongodb and noisebridge

Ronald Cotoni setient at gmail.com
Wed Jul 22 17:09:53 UTC 2015

This is part of a greater discussion and I welcome it.  I am also going to
be at noise bridge tonight if anyone wants to discuss this in person.

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:04 AM, Jehan Tremback <jehan.tremback at gmail.com>

> I'm not incredibly active at Noisebridge, so take my commentary as just
> commentary, but let's think of two scenarios:
> 1. People can come to Noisebridge and host QnA's about technical topics.
> If they are not disruptive, no problem.
> or
> 2. People are judged ad-hoc for perceived political alignment (not even
> actual political positions!), and then pressured to "donate" if their
> character is judged to not be radical enough.
> I'd like to see anyone who wants to teach people about open source code to
> feel free to do that at Noisebridge without being judged against some
> activist litmus test. Also, isn't it even more compromising of
> Noisebridge's values to become some sort of for-charge seminar space? The
> combination of radical rhetoric and rent-seeking is rather blatant, and
> somewhat offputting.
> -Jehan
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:16 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey folks,
>> In the interest of not blocking anyone and getting more expedited, I've
>> taken this offlist.  If I come across as abrasive, I apologize - I know
>> that Bryan is a great person doing very cool things, and indeed I hope to
>> participate in the MongoDB sessions myself... But a corporation is a
>> corporation is a profit extracting at all costs feelingless machine and it
>> needs to be dealt with accordingly.
>> When thinking about an appropriate donation, I'm using a formula
>> something like:
>>       cost per square foot  * marketing/bizdev cost modifier *
>> bizdev/marketing budget modifier * hr/recruiting costs modifier *
>> noisebridge premium
>> We are a centrally located hackerspace attracting some of the best talent
>> in the bay and the world.
>> I'll do some research and plug some initial numbers in there tomorrow
>> (unless anyone else has a starting point) so bryan can get everything
>> calendared in ASAP.
>> I've also gone ahead and cc'ed mitch and naomi,  in case they have input
>> :)
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:43 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'll see you next tuesday!
>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Praveen, first of all hi!  Second, lets take this to a meeting or
>>>> something.  This is not the place for this type of discussion.  This is
>>>> also pretty drama filled right now and is basically a sore spot.  Noise
>>>> bridge is ultimately a maker space and a hacker space.  It is used to
>>>> create amazing things with software, hardware or even non technical
>>>> things.  Yes, there are some politics discussed at noise bridge and we
>>>> welcome all to have rational discussions about all topics, as long as you
>>>> respect those around you and treat them with excellence.   Though that
>>>> happens a lot, that is clearly not our primary focus of making cool things
>>>> and helping people learn to make cool things.
>>>> Let's end this discussion and have both you and Bryan come either this
>>>> week (short notice for me and most likely others) or next week and discuss
>>>> this.  We could also plan a time that is not a Tuesday meeting so that we
>>>> do not fill the meeting with this one subject if there is enough interest.
>>>> Do you feel like organizing that Praveen since you seem to have a lot of
>>>> vested interest in this particular subject?  I can help facilitate.
>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Jeffrey Carl Faden <
>>>> jeffreyatw at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I’m pretty sure he would. It’s not that intense, really.
>>>>> Jeffrey
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:54 PM, 2011PIguppy2011 <
>>>>> 2011PIguppy2011 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Praveen I would highly encourage you to make these statements face to
>>>>>> face instead of over the internet.  It's really draining and I would be
>>>>>> very surprised if you felt it was appropriate to speak to someone like that
>>>>>> in person.
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:49 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> The issues of giving corporate free passes is centrally linked to
>>>>>>> very real gentrification issues, inside and outside noisebridge.
>>>>>>> Inside noisebridge:
>>>>>>>     - we still don't have disabled or elderly accessible
>>>>>>> environments even after years of being here.  Our members with
>>>>>>> accessibility issues often have to go to great struggles to figure out if
>>>>>>> they can be at the space.
>>>>>>>      - we are still a monolingual environment, with our wiki being
>>>>>>> english only inside a strong bilingual community
>>>>>>> The list can go on about noisebridge and the immediate neighborhood,
>>>>>>> like providing mesh access to the low income in the community.
>>>>>>> Having cash to do such things, beyond worrying about basic rent is
>>>>>>> of immense value.
>>>>>>> And yet we have actors like Jehan privileging free access to a cash
>>>>>>> heavy corporation because they use the AGPL in their product.  It's very
>>>>>>> admirable that a company should do such a thing, but by that logic would
>>>>>>> you invite Oracle in to give demos because Mysql is open source?
>>>>>>> Preposterous.
>>>>>>> Noisebridge is not broken.  Our job is not to attract wealth people
>>>>>>> from far away places like palo alto.  We have value inside our own
>>>>>>> communities, in Noisebridge, in the Mission, that we have to develop and
>>>>>>> emerge to be next cutting edge.
>>>>>>> In so far as politics at noisebridge -- I'm sorry but NB is an
>>>>>>> explicitly political space. We host and talk about issues that are of
>>>>>>> importance to hackers that include digital rights, free internet, and yes
>>>>>>> gentrification and tech class divide in urban areas like the mission
>>>>>>> district.  If you feel differently, I welcome you to shut down Techno
>>>>>>> Activism Tuesdays and the many other projects we've hosted here.
>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 10:55 PM, 2011PIguppy2011 <
>>>>>>> 2011PIguppy2011 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> As far as I am concerned, free office hours are just that. I don't
>>>>>>>> see the point in injecting SF city politics / hot button issues into this
>>>>>>>> and I see it as blatant trolling. Noisebridge is not a political
>>>>>>>> nonprofit.
>>>>>>>> It would be great to have more responsible people in the space at a
>>>>>>>> regular time using it to hack on tech. He said it was open office hours for
>>>>>>>> whoever.
>>>>>>>> On Monday, July 20, 2015, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:24 PM, Garrett Smith <
>>>>>>>>> dhtmlkitchen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> > We usually announce on Twitter that we’ll be available at the
>>>>>>>>>> venue and
>>>>>>>>>> > typically expect about 10 to 12 people to drop in on average.
>>>>>>>>>> Anyone with
>>>>>>>>>> > questions about MongoDB are welcome. I’d like to start the
>>>>>>>>>> first "office
>>>>>>>>>> > hours” Thursday the 23rd, from 4-6 PM.  Do you feel that
>>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge is an
>>>>>>>>>> > appropriate please to host these small meetups?
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> I think that it's doocratic in the spirit of Noisebridge. You'll
>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>> to chec the schedule for room availability of Turing or Church
>>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>>> booking your room by editing the wiki.
>>>>>>>>> I vehemently disagree  -- MongoDB is a for profit company that
>>>>>>>>> would otherwise pay top dollar to have real estate to run where it can get
>>>>>>>>> mindshare for other engineers.   While I support noisebridge to support our
>>>>>>>>> own community members to launch their for profit projects (for example,
>>>>>>>>> mitch altman pitching his electronics), it's frankly because of companies
>>>>>>>>> like MongoDB getting a free ride from the city that not only is
>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge's rent going up, but everyone in the neighborhood getting
>>>>>>>>> kicked out as well.
>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge it  /community/ space - so I really have ask, what
>>>>>>>>> concrete value does MongoDB add to this community?   Why not give Microsoft
>>>>>>>>> or Apple free space to develop mindshare in our community?
>>>>>>>>> We may need cash, and once again our non-profit status does not
>>>>>>>>> allow us to have in-kind donations.  But, if you really want to play ball
>>>>>>>>> with these companies, we better make our benefit very tangible and make it *a
>>>>>>>>> lot*.  MongoDB would otherwise pay thousands if not tens of
>>>>>>>>> thousands to have a deal somewhere else in the city.  We are a premium spot
>>>>>>>>> for it, and we should make it such that even the poorest and most
>>>>>>>>> unconnected of us are able to benefit from it.
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> (Sent from cellphone)
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>> --
>>>> Ronald Cotoni
>>>> Systems Engineer
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss

Ronald Cotoni
Systems Engineer
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