[Noisebridge-discuss] mongodb and noisebridge

Wed Jul 22 18:00:36 UTC 2015

Same. I'll be there again tonight before the shop safety class. I was there 
last night for a bit before the meeting and had a really great discussion.

This is all a very good discussion and helps all us figure out what 
Noisebridge means to us.

~~consensus~~

On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 10:09:53 AM Ronald Cotoni wrote:
> This is part of a greater discussion and I welcome it.  I am also going to
> be at noise bridge tonight if anyone wants to discuss this in person.
> 
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:04 AM, Jehan Tremback <jehan.tremback at gmail.com>
> 
> wrote:
> > I'm not incredibly active at Noisebridge, so take my commentary as just
> > commentary, but let's think of two scenarios:
> > 
> > 1. People can come to Noisebridge and host QnA's about technical topics.
> > If they are not disruptive, no problem.
> > 
> > or
> > 
> > 2. People are judged ad-hoc for perceived political alignment (not even
> > actual political positions!), and then pressured to "donate" if their
> > character is judged to not be radical enough.
> > 
> > I'd like to see anyone who wants to teach people about open source code to
> > feel free to do that at Noisebridge without being judged against some
> > activist litmus test. Also, isn't it even more compromising of
> > Noisebridge's values to become some sort of for-charge seminar space? The
> > combination of radical rhetoric and rent-seeking is rather blatant, and
> > somewhat offputting.
> > 
> > -Jehan
> > 
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:16 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hey folks,
> >> 
> >> In the interest of not blocking anyone and getting more expedited, I've
> >> taken this offlist.  If I come across as abrasive, I apologize - I know
> >> that Bryan is a great person doing very cool things, and indeed I hope to
> >> participate in the MongoDB sessions myself... But a corporation is a
> >> corporation is a profit extracting at all costs feelingless machine and
> >> it
> >> needs to be dealt with accordingly.
> >> 
> >> When thinking about an appropriate donation, I'm using a formula
> >> 
> >> something like:
> >>       cost per square foot  * marketing/bizdev cost modifier *
> >> 
> >> bizdev/marketing budget modifier * hr/recruiting costs modifier *
> >> noisebridge premium
> >> 
> >> We are a centrally located hackerspace attracting some of the best talent
> >> in the bay and the world.
> >> 
> >> I'll do some research and plug some initial numbers in there tomorrow
> >> (unless anyone else has a starting point) so bryan can get everything
> >> calendared in ASAP.
> >> 
> >> I've also gone ahead and cc'ed mitch and naomi,  in case they have input
> >> 
> >> :)
> >> 
> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:43 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> I'll see you next tuesday!
> >>> 
> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com>
> >>> 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> Praveen, first of all hi!  Second, lets take this to a meeting or
> >>>> something.  This is not the place for this type of discussion.  This is
> >>>> also pretty drama filled right now and is basically a sore spot.  Noise
> >>>> bridge is ultimately a maker space and a hacker space.  It is used to
> >>>> create amazing things with software, hardware or even non technical
> >>>> things.  Yes, there are some politics discussed at noise bridge and we
> >>>> welcome all to have rational discussions about all topics, as long as
> >>>> you
> >>>> respect those around you and treat them with excellence.   Though that
> >>>> happens a lot, that is clearly not our primary focus of making cool
> >>>> things
> >>>> and helping people learn to make cool things.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Let's end this discussion and have both you and Bryan come either this
> >>>> week (short notice for me and most likely others) or next week and
> >>>> discuss
> >>>> this.  We could also plan a time that is not a Tuesday meeting so that
> >>>> we
> >>>> do not fill the meeting with this one subject if there is enough
> >>>> interest.
> >>>> Do you feel like organizing that Praveen since you seem to have a lot
> >>>> of
> >>>> vested interest in this particular subject?  I can help facilitate.
> >>>> 
> >>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Jeffrey Carl Faden <
> >>>> 
> >>>> jeffreyatw at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> I’m pretty sure he would. It’s not that intense, really.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Jeffrey
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:54 PM, 2011PIguppy2011 <
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 2011PIguppy2011 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> Praveen I would highly encourage you to make these statements face to
> >>>>>> face instead of over the internet.  It's really draining and I would
> >>>>>> be
> >>>>>> very surprised if you felt it was appropriate to speak to someone
> >>>>>> like that
> >>>>>> in person.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:49 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com>
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> The issues of giving corporate free passes is centrally linked to
> >>>>>>> very real gentrification issues, inside and outside noisebridge.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Inside noisebridge:
> >>>>>>>     - we still don't have disabled or elderly accessible
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> environments even after years of being here.  Our members with
> >>>>>>> accessibility issues often have to go to great struggles to figure
> >>>>>>> out if
> >>>>>>> they can be at the space.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>      - we are still a monolingual environment, with our wiki being
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> english only inside a strong bilingual community
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> The list can go on about noisebridge and the immediate neighborhood,
> >>>>>>> like providing mesh access to the low income in the community.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Having cash to do such things, beyond worrying about basic rent is
> >>>>>>> of immense value.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> And yet we have actors like Jehan privileging free access to a cash
> >>>>>>> heavy corporation because they use the AGPL in their product.  It's
> >>>>>>> very
> >>>>>>> admirable that a company should do such a thing, but by that logic
> >>>>>>> would
> >>>>>>> you invite Oracle in to give demos because Mysql is open source?
> >>>>>>> Preposterous.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Noisebridge is not broken.  Our job is not to attract wealth people
> >>>>>>> from far away places like palo alto.  We have value inside our own
> >>>>>>> communities, in Noisebridge, in the Mission, that we have to develop
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>> emerge to be next cutting edge.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> In so far as politics at noisebridge -- I'm sorry but NB is an
> >>>>>>> explicitly political space. We host and talk about issues that are
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>> importance to hackers that include digital rights, free internet,
> >>>>>>> and yes
> >>>>>>> gentrification and tech class divide in urban areas like the mission
> >>>>>>> district.  If you feel differently, I welcome you to shut down
> >>>>>>> Techno
> >>>>>>> Activism Tuesdays and the many other projects we've hosted here.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 10:55 PM, 2011PIguppy2011 <
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 2011PIguppy2011 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> As far as I am concerned, free office hours are just that. I don't
> >>>>>>>> see the point in injecting SF city politics / hot button issues
> >>>>>>>> into this
> >>>>>>>> and I see it as blatant trolling. Noisebridge is not a political
> >>>>>>>> nonprofit.
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> It would be great to have more responsible people in the space at a
> >>>>>>>> regular time using it to hack on tech. He said it was open office
> >>>>>>>> hours for
> >>>>>>>> whoever.
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> On Monday, July 20, 2015, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:24 PM, Garrett Smith <
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> dhtmlkitchen at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> > We usually announce on Twitter that we’ll be available at the
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> venue and
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> > typically expect about 10 to 12 people to drop in on average.
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> Anyone with
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> > questions about MongoDB are welcome. I’d like to start the
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> first "office
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> > hours” Thursday the 23rd, from 4-6 PM.  Do you feel that
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge is an
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> > appropriate please to host these small meetups?
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> I think that it's doocratic in the spirit of Noisebridge. You'll
> >>>>>>>>>> need
> >>>>>>>>>> to chec the schedule for room availability of Turing or Church
> >>>>>>>>>> before
> >>>>>>>>>> booking your room by editing the wiki.
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> I vehemently disagree  -- MongoDB is a for profit company that
> >>>>>>>>> would otherwise pay top dollar to have real estate to run where it
> >>>>>>>>> can get
> >>>>>>>>> mindshare for other engineers.   While I support noisebridge to
> >>>>>>>>> support our
> >>>>>>>>> own community members to launch their for profit projects (for
> >>>>>>>>> example,
> >>>>>>>>> mitch altman pitching his electronics), it's frankly because of
> >>>>>>>>> companies
> >>>>>>>>> like MongoDB getting a free ride from the city that not only is
> >>>>>>>>> Noisebridge's rent going up, but everyone in the neighborhood
> >>>>>>>>> getting
> >>>>>>>>> kicked out as well.
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> Noisebridge it  /community/ space - so I really have ask, what
> >>>>>>>>> concrete value does MongoDB add to this community?   Why not give
> >>>>>>>>> Microsoft
> >>>>>>>>> or Apple free space to develop mindshare in our community?
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> We may need cash, and once again our non-profit status does not
> >>>>>>>>> allow us to have in-kind donations.  But, if you really want to
> >>>>>>>>> play ball
> >>>>>>>>> with these companies, we better make our benefit very tangible and
> >>>>>>>>> make it *a lot*.  MongoDB would otherwise pay thousands if not
> >>>>>>>>> tens of
> >>>>>>>>> thousands to have a deal somewhere else in the city.  We are a
> >>>>>>>>> premium spot
> >>>>>>>>> for it, and we should make it such that even the poorest and most
> >>>>>>>>> unconnected of us are able to benefit from it.
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> (Sent from cellphone)
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>> 
> >>>> --
> >>>> Ronald Cotoni
> >>>> Systems Engineer
> >>>> 
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss