[Noisebridge-discuss] mongodb and noisebridge

Wed Jul 22 18:38:29 UTC 2015

so for 1 meetup per week this would be $*2000*/month?

I tried calculating something referencing
http://www.evenues.com/Meeting-Spaces/San%20Francisco/California/?id=106f69d5-42c4-42fa-b797-2d8ef6ce92cf
at $*50*/hour.

For 4 2-hour sessions per month that's $*500*/month. Keeping in mind they
used to host these at a coffeeshop for free
http://www.meetup.com/San-Francisco-MongoDB-User-Group/events/206109962/

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:17 AM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com> wrote:

> This is a genuine discussion, which IMHO shouldn't be offlist.  If someone
> came and wanted to give mongodb tutorials, I clearly wouldn't mind.
> However, the fact that it is an employee of mongodb sets a different bar
> for me -- an employee using nb resources for further corporate development
> (no matter how chic it seems to have nosql + neuroscience discussions).
>
> And Jehan, my rent-seeking *is* blatant intentionally because we are
> otherwise a starving community space.  A community space is not co-working
> space, it's not an incubator. I put my sweat and money into these spaces in
> order to give people access to technology production they otherwise would
> not have.  Which is why I bring up gentrification:  having office hours
> empowers mongodb and the folks that already are connected enough to
> understand what nosql is and why they may want to use it.  My further
> question is:  what would mongodb be doing to reach out to folks in our
> community that aren't so connected and empowered?
>
> If we let this happen, then why not host corporate apple hackathons for
> free in our space?  Why draw the line at open source?  Why not let popular
> apple host closed source API workshops in our space for free?  I suspect
> that for some people on this list that would be perfectly fine.
>
> Also this is a fine line --  I *do * support mutual aid of up and coming
> entrepreneurs. I do support giving commercial space to folks inside our
> community access to develop and bring their stuff to market.  I have no
> problems with Mitch selling his electronics at our space -- but on the same
> token Mitch spends hours and hours reaching out to the very poor and
> disconnected teaching valuable skills.  There is a big difference.
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:04 AM, Jehan Tremback <jehan.tremback at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> I'm not incredibly active at Noisebridge, so take my commentary as just
>> commentary, but let's think of two scenarios:
>>
>> 1. People can come to Noisebridge and host QnA's about technical topics.
>> If they are not disruptive, no problem.
>>
>> or
>>
>> 2. People are judged ad-hoc for perceived political alignment (not even
>> actual political positions!), and then pressured to "donate" if their
>> character is judged to not be radical enough.
>>
>> I'd like to see anyone who wants to teach people about open source code
>> to feel free to do that at Noisebridge without being judged against some
>> activist litmus test. Also, isn't it even more compromising of
>> Noisebridge's values to become some sort of for-charge seminar space? The
>> combination of radical rhetoric and rent-seeking is rather blatant, and
>> somewhat offputting.
>>
>> -Jehan
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:16 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey folks,
>>>
>>> In the interest of not blocking anyone and getting more expedited, I've
>>> taken this offlist.  If I come across as abrasive, I apologize - I know
>>> that Bryan is a great person doing very cool things, and indeed I hope to
>>> participate in the MongoDB sessions myself... But a corporation is a
>>> corporation is a profit extracting at all costs feelingless machine and it
>>> needs to be dealt with accordingly.
>>>
>>> When thinking about an appropriate donation, I'm using a formula
>>> something like:
>>>       cost per square foot  * marketing/bizdev cost modifier *
>>> bizdev/marketing budget modifier * hr/recruiting costs modifier *
>>> noisebridge premium
>>>
>>> We are a centrally located hackerspace attracting some of the best
>>> talent in the bay and the world.
>>>
>>> I'll do some research and plug some initial numbers in there tomorrow
>>> (unless anyone else has a starting point) so bryan can get everything
>>> calendared in ASAP.
>>>
>>> I've also gone ahead and cc'ed mitch and naomi,  in case they have input
>>> :)
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:43 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'll see you next tuesday!
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Praveen, first of all hi!  Second, lets take this to a meeting or
>>>>> something.  This is not the place for this type of discussion.  This is
>>>>> also pretty drama filled right now and is basically a sore spot.  Noise
>>>>> bridge is ultimately a maker space and a hacker space.  It is used to
>>>>> create amazing things with software, hardware or even non technical
>>>>> things.  Yes, there are some politics discussed at noise bridge and we
>>>>> welcome all to have rational discussions about all topics, as long as you
>>>>> respect those around you and treat them with excellence.   Though that
>>>>> happens a lot, that is clearly not our primary focus of making cool things
>>>>> and helping people learn to make cool things.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's end this discussion and have both you and Bryan come either this
>>>>> week (short notice for me and most likely others) or next week and discuss
>>>>> this.  We could also plan a time that is not a Tuesday meeting so that we
>>>>> do not fill the meeting with this one subject if there is enough interest.
>>>>> Do you feel like organizing that Praveen since you seem to have a lot of
>>>>> vested interest in this particular subject?  I can help facilitate.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Jeffrey Carl Faden <
>>>>> jeffreyatw at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I’m pretty sure he would. It’s not that intense, really.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeffrey
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:54 PM, 2011PIguppy2011 <
>>>>>> 2011PIguppy2011 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Praveen I would highly encourage you to make these statements face
>>>>>>> to face instead of over the internet.  It's really draining and I would be
>>>>>>> very surprised if you felt it was appropriate to speak to someone like that
>>>>>>> in person.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:49 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The issues of giving corporate free passes is centrally linked to
>>>>>>>> very real gentrification issues, inside and outside noisebridge.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Inside noisebridge:
>>>>>>>>     - we still don't have disabled or elderly accessible
>>>>>>>> environments even after years of being here.  Our members with
>>>>>>>> accessibility issues often have to go to great struggles to figure out if
>>>>>>>> they can be at the space.
>>>>>>>>      - we are still a monolingual environment, with our wiki being
>>>>>>>> english only inside a strong bilingual community
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The list can go on about noisebridge and the immediate
>>>>>>>> neighborhood, like providing mesh access to the low income in the community.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Having cash to do such things, beyond worrying about basic rent is
>>>>>>>> of immense value.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And yet we have actors like Jehan privileging free access to a cash
>>>>>>>> heavy corporation because they use the AGPL in their product.  It's very
>>>>>>>> admirable that a company should do such a thing, but by that logic would
>>>>>>>> you invite Oracle in to give demos because Mysql is open source?
>>>>>>>> Preposterous.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Noisebridge is not broken.  Our job is not to attract wealth people
>>>>>>>> from far away places like palo alto.  We have value inside our own
>>>>>>>> communities, in Noisebridge, in the Mission, that we have to develop and
>>>>>>>> emerge to be next cutting edge.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In so far as politics at noisebridge -- I'm sorry but NB is an
>>>>>>>> explicitly political space. We host and talk about issues that are of
>>>>>>>> importance to hackers that include digital rights, free internet, and yes
>>>>>>>> gentrification and tech class divide in urban areas like the mission
>>>>>>>> district.  If you feel differently, I welcome you to shut down Techno
>>>>>>>> Activism Tuesdays and the many other projects we've hosted here.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 10:55 PM, 2011PIguppy2011 <
>>>>>>>> 2011PIguppy2011 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As far as I am concerned, free office hours are just that. I don't
>>>>>>>>> see the point in injecting SF city politics / hot button issues into this
>>>>>>>>> and I see it as blatant trolling. Noisebridge is not a political
>>>>>>>>> nonprofit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It would be great to have more responsible people in the space at
>>>>>>>>> a regular time using it to hack on tech. He said it was open office hours
>>>>>>>>> for whoever.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Monday, July 20, 2015, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:24 PM, Garrett Smith <
>>>>>>>>>> dhtmlkitchen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> > We usually announce on Twitter that we’ll be available at the
>>>>>>>>>>> venue and
>>>>>>>>>>> > typically expect about 10 to 12 people to drop in on average.
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone with
>>>>>>>>>>> > questions about MongoDB are welcome. I’d like to start the
>>>>>>>>>>> first "office
>>>>>>>>>>> > hours” Thursday the 23rd, from 4-6 PM.  Do you feel that
>>>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge is an
>>>>>>>>>>> > appropriate please to host these small meetups?
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think that it's doocratic in the spirit of Noisebridge. You'll
>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>> to chec the schedule for room availability of Turing or Church
>>>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>>>> booking your room by editing the wiki.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I vehemently disagree  -- MongoDB is a for profit company that
>>>>>>>>>> would otherwise pay top dollar to have real estate to run where it can get
>>>>>>>>>> mindshare for other engineers.   While I support noisebridge to support our
>>>>>>>>>> own community members to launch their for profit projects (for example,
>>>>>>>>>> mitch altman pitching his electronics), it's frankly because of companies
>>>>>>>>>> like MongoDB getting a free ride from the city that not only is
>>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge's rent going up, but everyone in the neighborhood getting
>>>>>>>>>> kicked out as well.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge it  /community/ space - so I really have ask, what
>>>>>>>>>> concrete value does MongoDB add to this community?   Why not give Microsoft
>>>>>>>>>> or Apple free space to develop mindshare in our community?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We may need cash, and once again our non-profit status does not
>>>>>>>>>> allow us to have in-kind donations.  But, if you really want to play ball
>>>>>>>>>> with these companies, we better make our benefit very tangible and make it *a
>>>>>>>>>> lot*.  MongoDB would otherwise pay thousands if not tens of
>>>>>>>>>> thousands to have a deal somewhere else in the city.  We are a premium spot
>>>>>>>>>> for it, and we should make it such that even the poorest and most
>>>>>>>>>> unconnected of us are able to benefit from it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> (Sent from cellphone)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ronald Cotoni
>>>>> Systems Engineer
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20150722/51033c8c/attachment-0003.html>