[Tastebridge] [Noisebridge-discuss] take it easy, it is just an another situation to learn from

algoldor at frantisekapfelbeck.org algoldor at frantisekapfelbeck.org
Thu Apr 21 21:04:18 UTC 2011

Greetings to all!
I think that Rubin's email is kind of saying what I mean, some of his  
suggestions are very "fresh ones" but that is the reason why I like  
them. He uses open approach, with hammer in his hand sometimes but  
open ...

I send close emails to people if I think that it is better to discuss  
things with them first off the list, it is a usual practice done by  
many Noisebridge members who I value. I do not have a problem if  
someone posts my emails, I hope I'm clear here. To be absolutely  
honest I meant to send it to discuss too but I've failed, not for the  
first time.

I do express my opinion if I do not agree with something. I'm trying  
not to let things happen if I believe it is not a good idea. Your post  
saying basically "I'm closing the donation box if you want a key you  
can talk to me" without discussing this option on Noisebridge or  
Tastebridge mailing list is not as good as it could be. It is not just  
me who is not at SF just right now, Fabian, Benni, Josh and others are  
now also away and I think that they should have a chance to say what  
they think about it too.

Concerning where the money stays. I've found that to have larger  
quantities of money out of sight works fine because as I've said  
before "no temptation". Think of Noisebridge in a larger scale, most  
of the time no keys to donation bins and no large amounts of money in  
them, money sits somewhere safe. It seems to me fine and it works. If  
there are for the last few months locks on the jars I hope it is just  
temporary and I doubt there are on all donation bins in the space.

If my comments are not welcomed I'm sorry but I do believe this is an  
important matter and I really hope that another than "lock them out"  
option is going to be used. I should maybe not use the phrasing that I  
do not want to interfere, my fault, sorry. I do want to interfere.

I think that you take this personally. I can ensure you that if Mitch  
posted that he wants to lock the Tastebridge donation bin I would ask  
him to try another solution.

If I did not make you realise what I'm talking about I'm sorry. I've  
tried but your points of view on this matter may be too different, we  
should wait and see what the community thinks of it. If they are fine  
with closed box I'll be not particularly happy but I think that I can  
live with it.

Peace and love,


PS If you think that the tricks which I've used to secure the budget  
for Tastebridge would not work now because of what ever reasons (time,  
amount of people involved etc.) try something else. All what I ask is  
to leave the box closure as the last possible solution.


I for one see this as a message from a higher being, telling us that
kombucha is a source of evil that will eventually consume Noisebridge in
a fury of fermented tea and bacteria growth that has the consistency of ham.

OR there are a growing number of interesting people inhabiting
(infesting?) the space that no one has stopped to inform them who we
are, what we do, and how we operate as a group.

Note 1: Noisebridge operates well when it isn't taken advantage of.

Note 2: It's easy to take advantage of something when you don't
understand (or when no one has introduced you to the concept).

Rubin Abdi
rubin at starset.net

Hi Frantisek,

Please explain something to me: In your opinion, what is the  
difference between having somebody take the money home (a treasurer)  
and having a box in the space that anyone may have a key to? It's also  
a little hard to take your talk of openness seriously when it's only  
happening in closed emails.

You're not just interfering, you're trying to run the show, and it's  
not unwelcome. Please stop.


P.S.: Thanks for the offer, but we've already got a hook-up through Om  
Shan Tea House, so I think we'll be alright.

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 9:32 AM, <algoldor at frantisekapfelbeck.org> wrote:

     Look Rikke,
     Most support which we got from people to start the project and to  
keep it running was given by people who are directly against charging  
fees for classes because of the openness of Noisebridge and strongly  
arguing against any locked boxes which have appeared quite recently  
and were unwelcome by many. It is just as it is, good or bad doesn't  
matter, I take it as a fact.

     It is hard for me to know how Tastebridge is doing because there  
are close to no posts on the Tastebrige webpages or on the discuss  
lists. I've lowered the amount of my posts partly because I wanted to  
create more space for others to go ahead. And yes also because it  
takes a hell of time to keep thing like this alive and vibrant and  
I've my limitations.

     I do understand that people have different amounts of time, again  
that is fact. I've just been trying to remind ways which we have used  
before to get money and which worked. We have been loosing money on  
donations before as Noisebridge did. It is not a new thing. I just  
strongly feel that the gain from having it open over weight the amount  
of money loosed if managed well.

     Concerning the openness of access that is questionable. After  
doing this for a while I've still always open box on my events and  
during my activities. I think it is not just cool, it works at least  
for me and I hoped it could be sustainable for Tastebridge too. I just  
do not think that this system is necessary.

     I've expressed my opinion, that is all what I can do now so I do  
not interfere too much.

     If you take the road of locked system, so be it but I would love  
to see another solution how to keep the budget in plus numbers and  
donation box open. If you feel that the time constrain is too big, I  
would understand of course. However taking money on regular basis has  
the advantage of not tempting too much. I think that to see $5 and $50  
lying on a table is for many people different grade of temptation.



     PS Please do not feel harmed that is certainly not an intention  
of my comments. However I've a strong view on some things and that is  
one of the reason why I'm able to get support to do things from some  
people and quite gaining quite nothing from others.

     PS II. It may be that I'll apply in the future the closed box  
system too, but I hope I'll not have to. I would have to be strongly  
forced to do so. It may be hard to explain  but this is one of the  
things which is important for me and for the projects which I run.

     PS III. I may ask Three Stone Hearths if they would be OK to make  
some order for us for whole sale prices. They would not be probably  
very happy about it mostly because it would complicate their  
accounting system.

     Quoting Rikke Rasmussen <rikke.c.rasmussen at gmail.com>:


         It's not a matter of people not donating - on the contrary,  
we've been doing
         fine just with the weekly kombucha and a little food here and  
there - it's a
         matter of us having very deliberately *not* having locked  
away or removed
         any funds, exactly because no one wants to have to make any  
decisions that
         detract from the openness of our community, and someone then  
having taken
         advantage of that openness.

         Don't see the principal difference between a treasurer  
removing the money
         and a locked box in the fridge that anyone can get keys and  
access to? It
         wouldn't be the only donation box in the space with a lock on  
it, either.

         Stocks have been managed better than you might expect - we're  
still running
         on the last of what you bought just before you left. I thank  
you for the
         advice, but while I appreciate that Tastebridge was your full-time
         occupation, none of us currently have that option, and I  
can't help but feel
         a little hurt by the implication that it can't function any  
other way. I
         think we've been doing really well, all things considered.


         On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck   
<algoldor at yahoo.com>wrote:

             Hi Rikke,
             I understand your frustration but I really strongly feel  
that locked
             donation box solution is not a good solution, the project  
would be harmed
             considerably. There is a very strong part of Noisebridge  
which is against
             locking anything within the community. In this case I  
think that distance
             doesn't matter, another solution should be applied.

             I do not know strategies what are the current Tastebridge  
strategies to
             accumulate resources and I've not seen any numbers being  
published recently
             of how do we do but based on previous experience:
             - the Tuesday member dinner worked fine and donations  
were collected and
             counted directly so no problem there, just leave few  
dollars in the box
             - the underground markets are hard to prepare for but it  
is an amazing way
             how to get resources too and again fully controlled with  
no strings attached
             - other option which helped before is send an email to  
the community to ask
             for resources for the brewing program to continue (I can do that)
             - of course taking out money on regular bases should work  
fine if some one
             is around to do so. I bet someone trusty even not  
affiliated to Tastebridge
             would do it. Again leaving $1-10 in the donation box and  
having the donation
             box on as much stable position worked fine for months.

             I'm sending this to you in person so you can think about  
that. If you go
             this way you will loose more than you gain and I'll have  
to comment on this
             because this was, is and will be one of the fundamental  
principles behind
             Tastebridge - open as much as possible. People who  
supported Tastebridge in
             the past are mostly strongly against the locking  
solutions. I know that very
             well and yes I'm one of them too and there are very  
strong reasons for that.

             So please try to take care about that in a different  
manner I do not have a
             problem to write to some folks to try to get some  
resources. Once the
             ingredients are bought they last quite a while if managed  
well. I think the
             major problem is the money management, someone has to be  
"treasurer" for
             Tastebridge and really take care about it. I'm using  
Tastebridge as a
             concept where ever I go and it works but it is not easy  
sometimes but I
             deeply feel it is worth it.

             If it happens that Tastebridge in Noisebridge will become  
inactive that is
             life. I'll and many others will be sorry but I'll  
continue to promote the
             idea somewhere else and I'll revive it once in San  
Francisco again it will
             take just a little bit longer than if it was kept running.

             Best of luck and enjoy the "painful thorns" of the beauty  
of the open
             movement :-))



             PS I'm going to post very short note asking you to  
reconsider, if you want
             post this email that is absolutely fine do so preferably  
to both lists.
             *From:* Rikke Rasmussen <rikke.c.rasmussen at gmail.com>
             *To:* Tastebridge <tastebridge at lists.noisebridge.net>;
             noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net;  
biobridge at lists.noisebridge.net
             *Sent:* Thu, April 21, 2011 9:01:46 AM
             *Subject:* [Noisebridge-discuss] The Mystery of the  
Disappearing Donations

             Hey people,

             Amanda and I have bottled yet another batch of kombucha  
for y'all to enjoy
             - they're currently sitting on the Tastebridge shelf,  
awaiting refrigeration

             Am much dismayed to note, however, that the Tastebridge  
donation jar (the
             small screw top one we keep our funds in) currently  
contains only $9.00 (6
             of which were put in tonight, and down from ~$35.00 on  
Monday night) -
             nowhere near enough to replenish our almost depleted  
stock of tea and sugar
             (base ingredients). This basically means that we've got  
barely enough for
             another batch, and won't be able to make any more unless  
money magically
             reappears. I'll immediately take the (painful!) step of  
putting a locked box
             in the fridge for kombucha donations - anyone who feels  
they should have a
             key can ask me for one.

             Sorry folks, but this really sucks. Please help me make  
sure this doesn't
             happen again.


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