[Noisebridge-discuss] A potential space - the No Starch Press building (and how we can handle voting)

[davidfine]

Toya,
Choosing to leave the group over an issue that was brought up just six 
hours ago is the most dramatic thing anyone has done. You can't expect 
instant resolution, and so the rest of us will be here talking it out 
like adults. If you like Ryan, you can stay and talk it out with us. But 
I gotta tell you, judging someones character based on something they 
did, even if it was four years ago, is not prejudice. That said, 
corporations have figured out ways to prevent a single person from 
screwing them over. Let's follow their example.
--D

You are the only person who has, as of yet, taken an action with long 
term consequences. The rest of us are going to be here, talking things 
out like adults.
toya wrote:
> Hi i will leave this list, I work almost a decade with social movements, 
> collectives and networks from many country and this is a situation that on 
> those places wouldnt be tolerated...not the way it is happening in here...
> it really amazes me to see how people's judgments are made in here.
> Makes me worry and to not even feel confortable to continue in here....
>
> In Brasil where I am from in a situation like this you try to do it in a 
> face to face fair discussion....pre judgements like this  seem as a 
> prejudice almost...because until now, in this group, there hasnt been 
> a problem with anyone's participation...so to raise a concern based on 
> a personal conflict that happenned over 4 years ago is to pre judge the 
> person before he even did anything.
>
> And this is something I cant tolerate. Marc I say it is a personal conflict,
> because global indymedia saw it this way, when indymedia sf broke up. The IMC
> network sees this as an annoying personal conflict and that's why it isn't
> discussed in Indymedia anymore.
>
> I dont see anyone who works with ryan from latina america, europe, global
> indymedia raising these concerns every time he shows up on a project or
> a list... if you have such a strong feeling about it, why dont you as a 
> person involved in indybay alert the network like you did here? the reason
> why you bring it up in NOISEBRIDGE and not in INDYMEDIA is because you 
> know that it would be unsupportable.. no one in indymedia accepts your
> request to not trust ryan in the network where he has been responsible
> for hosting half of the network for 8 years!!
>
> ryan is involved and participates on many imc meetings of many different
> projects, why dont you alert those people who are there and working with
> him for all these years?
>
> Because I am part of Indymedia Brasil since it started and I've been a
> part of many of indymedia global's working groups since 2000 and i've
> never really seen you around working or even alerting us about this
> distrust that you bring here, where no one knows what to think or even
> anything about indymedia??
>
> To see someone be pre-judged like this in a group that didnt even start
> yet is not something i want to be a part of. On the other hand, the 
> culture of social movements and groups I have been a part of don't
> allow this type of attack. If this was a Landless Movement meeting 
> in Brasil, we would wonder if Marc was a disruptor, this is not an
> attempt to build anything together, this is an attempt to destroy
> this group before it begins.
>
> IMC is a network of hundreds of people who trust on Ryan for years
> and work with him. Marc's email is about a conflict that happened
> over 4 years ago, where both groups came to a decision to separate
> and follow their own way since then. I have to say that other 
> people in the Indymedia network are amazed when I tell them that
> people from indybay still act this way.. because i have seen for
> myself now the way this little group of people act.
>
> And to Al -- the red flag that was raised for me is that a 
> disruption like this happens and it is allowed to disrupt 
> the group like this. For my own background i was born in a 
> dictatorship and we overthrew it with social groups that 
> take a little more serious approach to organizing, is a
> struggle of life and death started by my parents and we 
> dont afford to waste our times on internet drama like this,
> maybe its a luxury of the north to have your groups wasting
> time and people with random accusations.
>
> So, Marc's efforts have lost this group one person already, and
> i hope this wont happen again in this group, and i hope people 
> learn how to hold their judgements and reflect about how this 
> is an act of prejudice to judge someone so early. Good luck 
> with this group, I had my own personal wishes for this project
> myself but...
>
> tchau e boa sorte
> toya
>
>
> Marc Powell <marc at foodhacking.com> said:
>   
>> ryan, i don't stalk you, i don't even know you very well. that's a
>> baseless accusation. and you left last night after passing out some flyers
>> before we had a chance to discuss this.
>>
>> the indymedia you work "for" is a result of the split of two indymedias-
>> the real SF bay area indymedia, indybay.org that has been going strong
>> for years since you locked them out of servers, and sf.indymedia.org (your
>> domain) which has lain fallow for years. the URL i pasted is as good an
>> example of your transparent involvement with the indymedia schism as any.
>> these are not wild baseless attacks. i think your IMC creds are bunk, and
>> most other bay area IMC people would agree.
>>
>> i was involved with the Bay Area Hackmeet 2007, when people involved asked
>> that you not be involved with the planning process. you also resorted to
>> baseless "stalker" accusations there.
>>
>> i'm not trying to judge you ryan. i talked to some other people about my
>> concerns about you controlling any internet presence of noisebridge, they
>> recommended i send an email on to the list. i have no problem with you,
>> i just don't want you in charge of any servers or domains because you took
>> over the bay area indymedia center as well as enemy combatant radio as
>> well as sniffed peoples' irc on a server you had root access to (including
>> my own conversations).
>>
>> jake asked if we could have the next noisebridge meeting at my house,
>> unicorn precinct xiii, i didn't unilaterally declare this.
>>
>> thanks for the opporuntity to clear this up!! hope we can move on to some
>> real projects now, apologies for polluting the chillsphere with these
>> negtones, but how else do you deal with such things??
>>
>> best,
>> -marc
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