[Noisebridge-discuss] a little bit of info on the excel program, and an idea to move forward

[J.D. Zamfirescu-Pereira]

> I, too, am on a big Arduino kick, which I think is well justified  
> and not false enthusiasm. I love your plan.

Excellent!

> One point I disagree with: I strongly feel that each student should  
> have his/her own environment and Arduino. Some people feel that it  
> is extremely important to learn in groups, but I disagree. I'm not  
> sure I can argue this point, as it is in large part a gut feeling.

I could be persuaded either way. Lee and I were coming from a  
perspective of "might this be feasible", and so were conservative in  
our cost estimations. However, if aim for the sky is the way to go, as  
you say, then by all means I'm completely fine with giving each kid  
their own arduino and dev environment!

> I always encourage my students to share problems and ideas, to ask  
> each other questions, and to learn from each other. They can work in  
> pairs or larger groups, but I still feel strongly that they each  
> need their own computer and Arduino. They each need to make their  
> own mistakes and to exalt in their own successes.


I do think we should encourage students to work in groups, even if  
they've got their own environments. They can work on their own  
projects, of course, but they should have a built-in group they should  
feel comfortable asking questions of.

> This still leaves the matter of a computer. Right now netbooks are  
> the darlings of the moment, but I think it is too early to tell  
> whether they are truly appropriate platforms. What if we found  
> inexpensive or free used laptops? A live Linux CD or USB thumbdrive  
> could be used. I think the big question is how big a footprint is  
> the IDE, being Java and all. A question: What is the minimum amount  
> of RAM and CPU horsepower to run the Arduino IDE?

What appealed to me most about netbooks is (a) sturdy, and (b) cheap.  
I don't have one myself, but from what I've heard they're way more  
solid than the average laptop.

> Perhaps we could score a nice donation of such laptops, especially  
> if we find a company that is giving everyone netbooks instead!

That would be excellent. :)

> We should also consider some sort of projector for demonstrating.  
> This really is a major expense, is it not?

It would be useful, true, but depends on how large the class is. If  
it's 5 students, then one person with a large screen laptop might be  
enough. If it's 20, a projector would be good. (They seem to go for  
around $300-600 on amazon.)

>> The whole Arduino package is around 30 MB, including the IDE and
>> everything.  I doubt it'd be OK to run on a 128MB machine, but 512MB
>> will be fine.  (Unfortunately Ubuntu has abandoned the low-end, you
>> can't even run the 8.10 installer in 128MB.)  I bet you can do a
>> bootable Ubuntu+Arduino thumb drive in 512MB.
>
> Does anyone have an underpowered laptop with only 512MB? The first  
> experiment would be to make sure you can boot from a live Linux CD.  
> I can provide one if you don't have, or can't create one. Booting  
> off USB thumb drive would be an extra benefit, but probably only  
> works on more recent laptops. I'm trying to determine the low end  
> here.

I can create a 512 MB VM and see if the Arduino dev environment runs  
reasonably. :)

> Does anyone else agree this is a useful path to follow? If we can  
> bring Arduino to the class at the price of a $12 RBBB plus assorted  
> components and a discarded laptop, I think that would be immensely  
> cool. If we can control something that will impress high school  
> students, like a high powered light (no, we are not using lasers) on  
> a pan/tilt mechanism (servo motors), or car horns, or a subwoofer,  
> we may just be able to interest those folks who would benefit the  
> most from our program.

I definitely think this could be great!

I'm not sure where to start on writing a proposal, but I'm happy to  
help. Should those of us who are in town plan to meet at noisebridge  
sometime on Monday, to coordinate making this happen?

J.D.


> J.D. Zamfirescu-Pereira wrote:
>> (Mitch: I'm very curious to hear about your experiences teaching  
>> microcontrollers in NYC! -- out of curiosity, which school was this?)
>> Lee and I spoke for a while after tonight's five minutes of fame at  
>> noisebridge and came up with something of a possible scheme that  
>> I'll outline here. We'd like to hear your thoughts and (obviously)  
>> are open to suggestions.
>> 30,000 foot view:
>> Teaching kids blinkenlights with microcontrollers (arduinos?). 1  
>> class per week, 1-2 hours per class, 10 kids (high school) per  
>> class, 1-2 teachers per class. $3000 approximate cost for the year,  
>> with some equipment amortized over several years.
>> 5 foot view:
>> Both Lee and I have been on somewhat of an Arduino kick lately,  
>> myself in large part because it's easy to learn (and thus teach).  
>> We were remarking on how kids seem to love blinking LEDs they can  
>> do stuff with, and thought that a class based on the Arduino with  
>> some sensors, LEDs, motors, etc. could potentially be a ton of fun  
>> for a high-school after-school program.
>> This got us to thinking: would it be crazy to purchase 4 Eee PCs, 4  
>> arduino boards, and assorted components and teach microcontrollers  
>> in a way that's somewhat self-directed? Set kids up with sample  
>> code that blinks a light using an arduino. Explain some of the  
>> basics. Get them to create their own blinking patterns, based on a  
>> graph, or based on sensor input, or what have you. Lee suggested  
>> maybe getting an LED to blink in a heartbeat pattern. Or  
>> coordinating multiple LEDs.
>> As kids want to do more complex things, the teachers would explain  
>> how to do those things. For this kind of interaction, we figured a  
>> high teacher:student ratio would be good, so we thought 2 teachers  
>> and 10 students would be a good fit. (Students would pair- or 3-up  
>> on the Eee PC "stations".) That way, some groups could work while  
>> others got a question answered or saw a demo. For something of  
>> general interest, the whole group could be involved.
>> Running a "session" of about 10-12 weeks, this type of setup would  
>> lend itself to some continuity - kids could have projects that they  
>> work on from week to week - but we could also do one-off classes.  
>> For example, Mitch could do an excellent soldering lesson one week  
>> or something similar.
>> Some basic budgeting and we came up with a cost of about $3000/yr,  
>> from the following. (Question marks near the questionable stuff.)
>> 4 Eee PCs: $250 x 4 = $1000
>> 4 Arduinos + associated components, cables, etc: $50 x 4 = $250
>> 25 (?) weeks of class per year, $100 (?) "teaching fee" per class:  
>> $2500.
>> Amortizing the Eee PCs and arduinos over 3 (?) years yields just  
>> under $3000 per year.
>> Thoughts? Are we crazy? Does this sound doable (and fun, of  
>> course!) to anyone else?
>> (Lee, chime in if I've forgotten or misrepresented anything!)
>> J.D.
>> On Apr 15, 2009, at 12:23 PM, Michael Shiloh wrote:
>>> Aha! I have just heard back from one of my friends who does in  
>>> fact use ExCEL at her school, and she is going to put me in touch  
>>> with the ExCEL coordinator at her school. I will hopefully talk to  
>>> her later today.
>>>
>>> She does say, though, "EXCL is notoriously underfunded,  
>>> underorganized, etc.". But we should determine for ourselves. The  
>>> proposal process should tell us a lot.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Comments in line below. A big question I have to all of you:
>>>
>>> If this is a program that kids volunteer to be part of, I'm  
>>> interested in reaching those kids who don't give it a second  
>>> thought.
>>>
>>> How do we reach them? My fantasy: we come do a demonstration or a  
>>> show or something where everyone is included. Then we ask the kids  
>>> "Who is interested in learning how to do this?". Everyone who  
>>> raises their hand is sent out (or perhaps sent off with our first  
>>> teacher). With everyone left we have a discussion, basically  
>>> trying to figure out what kind of things turn them on, what would  
>>> they like to learn how to make, or build, or create, or whatever.
>>>
>>> Perhaps video editing? or sound or audio recording? perhaps  
>>> electronic music? perhaps basic carpentry or model rockets or just  
>>> smashing computer monitors?
>>>
>>> One of the problems is that in high school it is cool to appear  
>>> bored by life and disinterested in everything. How do we get  
>>> around this?
>>>
>>> Mitch Altman wrote:
>>>> Thanks for the first contact, Michael!
>>>> I like your general outline of 6 weeks.  10 kids per class is  
>>>> nice, but maybe we'll have a better chance of acceptance if we  
>>>> teach more?  (That's a question.)
>>>
>>> Good question, and one which I asked my teacher friend just now.  
>>> Will let you know.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd be most up for high school aged kids, myself,
>>>> since we can go more into things.  And if these classes are for  
>>>> people who volunteer themselves to be a part of, then I think  
>>>> we'll get some really interesting kids.  If we have a 6-week  
>>>> curriculum then we could do it twice per semester, if we like,  
>>>> plus once in the summer.
>>>
>>> Yes, I like this way of thinking.
>>>
>>>
>>>> We could have 1 teacher per week (or a set of teachers), with  
>>>> that 1 teacher (or set of teachers) teaching 1 topic.  I don't  
>>>> think the topics need to be closely knitted together, but just  
>>>> fit under a general umbrella, such as "making cool things".  What  
>>>> do others think?  We should pick the number of days/times that  
>>>> each teacher (or set) will teach -- I think we need to have this  
>>>> consistent for all 6 weeks.
>>>
>>> Agree to all.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'd like to teach kids how to make cool things with  
>>>> microcontrollers.  I'll be doing this for a week at a high school  
>>>> in NYC for learning disability kids.  The administration put out  
>>>> the word to the whole school that this class was available,  
>>>> thinking that 20 to 30 kids would sign up for it -- but 118 did,  
>>>> which is half the school. (!)  In this case, I'm teaching 6  
>>>> individual 3-hour classes, where each kid goes to one of the 6  
>>>> classes, and everyone builds one of the 5 projects that I offered  
>>>> (TV-B-Gone kit, Mignonette Game kit, Brain Machine kit, Trippy  
>>>> RGB Waves kit, MiniPOV3 kit).  The school is buying all of the  
>>>> tools so that they will be able to teach this class without me in  
>>>> the future.  I'll see how this goes at the NYC high school.  Much  
>>>> of what I do there will be directly applicable for teaching for  
>>>> the ExCEL program.  Any comments/thoughts?
>>>
>>> Excellent. Look forward to your reports.
>>>
>>>> I leave for 6 weeks of travel starting tomorrow morning.  I'll be  
>>>> checking my email every day, and I'll have my phone, if anyone  
>>>> wants to call for any reason:
>>>>    415-377-5993
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Mitch.
>>>>  ------------------------
>>>> > Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 21:52:04 -0700
>>>> > From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com
>>>> > To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> > Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] a little bit of info on the  
>>>> excel program, and an idea to move forward
>>>> >
>>>> > Man, these guys are hard to get in touch with, in spite of the  
>>>> handy
>>>> > contacts list on their web page.
>>>> >
>>>> > My (soon-to-be-ex) wife spent some time on the phone and was  
>>>> able to get
>>>> > through to Jason Rigg, the new manager. He does not accept  
>>>> direct emails
>>>> > (can we work with someone like this?) and he directed her to  
>>>> the two
>>>> > documents we've already seen: the RFP and the spreadsheet.
>>>> >
>>>> > He said to think "pie in the sky" and when they review the  
>>>> proposals
>>>> > they might want to negotiate down to something that they can  
>>>> fund.
>>>> >
>>>> > I will next follow up on the leads that Lee got from 826  
>>>> Valencia:
>>>> > Marisa and Dave.
>>>> >
>>>> > Meanwhile, I get the impression that we can propose pretty much  
>>>> whatever
>>>> > we would like, so in order to keep the ball rolling, and since  
>>>> the
>>>> > deadline is the end of this month, let's start talking about  
>>>> this.
>>>> >
>>>> > So, if we could propose our ideal program, what would it look  
>>>> like?
>>>> >
>>>> > I'll toss out some of my ideas, but please let's hear yours,  
>>>> and don't
>>>> > take mine as a firm proposal:
>>>> >
>>>> > Number of kids per class? I like no more than 10, although you  
>>>> do get a
>>>> > different dynamic with a larger group, assuming you have enough  
>>>> teachers.
>>>> >
>>>> > Ages? I just finished teaching a bunch of 8-10 year olds. Very  
>>>> high
>>>> > energy, very low attention span. Sweet kids, though, and good  
>>>> work when
>>>> > they focused, but I spent too much of my time telling them not  
>>>> to bother
>>>> > each other etc.
>>>> >
>>>> > 7th-8th grades have the hormones making them crazy. I should  
>>>> know, I
>>>> > have a 14 year old daughter. Keep away.
>>>> >
>>>> > High school can be the most rewarding, but is challenging.  
>>>> OTOH, this is
>>>> > probably the group that can most benefit from learning a  
>>>> creative skill
>>>> > in an after-school setting, and might especially enjoy the cool  
>>>> stuff we
>>>> > can teach. And, at their age especially, this could have a real  
>>>> impact
>>>> > on their future.
>>>> >
>>>> > My preference? 10-12 or high school.
>>>> >
>>>> > Subjects?
>>>> > Let's keep this very broad.
>>>> >
>>>> > Duration?
>>>> > I think for the first time we do this, I suggest we do  
>>>> something like a
>>>> > 6 week program, perhaps 2-3 times a week, and then expand as our
>>>> > confidence and experience dictates.
>>>> >
>>>> > Let's also discuss philosophy. I really am not interested in  
>>>> working
>>>> > with "gifted" or even those already interested in science. The  
>>>> ones I
>>>> > prefer are those who think they can not understand this, or can  
>>>> not
>>>> > learn how to do this. And I like to draw out the kids who are  
>>>> quiet and
>>>> > don't jump up and raise their hands the first time. And I want  
>>>> to use
>>>> > materials and supplies that are cheap and readily available, so  
>>>> that
>>>> > after class they can continue or duplicate without having to  
>>>> spend lots
>>>> > of money. I want to keep this accessible to all, and especially  
>>>> the
>>>> > underserved.
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm also particularly interested in getting more girls involved  
>>>> in what
>>>> > we do. We might consider having one group be a girls-only  
>>>> group, so they
>>>> > can develop their skills without having to compete with the  
>>>> guys. There
>>>> > are arguments on both sides of this issue, and I lean towards  
>>>> having a
>>>> > girls-only session.
>>>> >
>>>> > Have at it!
>>>> >
>>>> > M
>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
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