[Noisebridge-discuss] 2169 Mission status

Mon Jul 20 23:37:36 UTC 2009

Okay,

Concerns are always valid, and I won't argue with anyone for bringing
up any valid ones.  This is in fact the whole basis of consensus.

So let me run some vague numbers here.

Our current income, which would need to be confirmed by our treasurer
as I'm primarily using the google doc budget posted a while ago (
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=rfDTgx3F76nTE8ghiFDzr1g&hl=en
), appears to be $4.5k/mo for May and June.

This document also makes me question if our burn rate is actually
$3.9k/mo.  While averaging our expenses for the duration of 83c, that
may be accurate, but that includes an inflated $4k/mo rent for the
first two months (covering deposit and such), and about $3k in legal
fees that I presume will be much less now that our 501c3 application
process is lower.  Our burn rate seems to be closer to $3-$3.2k.

Anyway, with our stated goal of 3 months expenses in the bank account
for the new place, our new burn rate is of more concern.

$3.6k/mo for rent
$180/mo for internet (which, btw, seems insanely high for our quality
of service)
+Insurance at an unknown rate
+PG&E at an unknown rate.
+Cleaning at an unknown rate

If we assume double for both, we'd get $4k for insurance annually (but
paid up-front) and $600/mo for electricity (which isn't likely to
actually be double).  As for cleaning, I'm not sure as it also calls
into question if we should try and solicit work from members/guests to
cover this and try and save money.
Without cleaning, and with my estimate for pg&e, we'd be looking at
about $4.4k monthly burn rate, and $4k added to the startup cost.
For safety, if we assume a $5k burn rate, then we'd need $15k in the
bank to cover 3 months.

So, looking at this, we need these amounts before we can move:
$15k for 3 months in the bank.
$4k for insurance.
$3.2k for final month at 83c.
$3.2k for the first month at 2169 ($5k/mo - $1.8k break).
The deposit which wasn't mentioned by andy, but I'll guess at $3.6k

That's $25.4k so far.
PLUS buildout/cleaning and moving expenses (in the literal things from
here to there), which are hard to estimate and vary wildly depending
on our demands, desires and quotes we receive.

Right now, we have the $21k in the bank, $13.854k in pledges, and an
expected $4k+ from dues on August 1.
That's $38.854k, and assumes people pay their dues and honour their
pledges (a reasonable assumption.. plus, the $4k is how much in dues
we got in June, and should be more now).

This would leave $13.454k for buildout/cleaning and moving.

So, feel free to argue with and alter my numbers.  We also need some
estimates on how much it will cost to do the essential aspects of our
move, which I do believe will push over that amount.

>From what I hear, these are the main points:
 - Remodel a bathroom
 - Build a kitchen
 - Build partitions
 - Wire electrical
 - Floor

Most of you seem extremely intent on this bathroom.  I personally feel
that it would be nice, but not nearly as essential as some of you
regard it.
The kitchen is also something that I feel can be done for less.  Yes,
an electric range/oven, a fridge, counters and cabinets are needed.
None of that would require a contractor or a permit.
As for the sink, in my opinion it's a project that I would postpone.
There is one there, and while it is entirely less than ideal for a
kitchen, it does have running water and a drain.  Also, the lack of a
hot water heater is a definite acknowledged issue, and if we decide we
need one, an electric one will be required.

As for the partitions... I definitely see the need for some.  But I'm
not as convinced this needs to be done instantly, or at least, all of
them.  I feel that much of it could be done at a later point --
perhaps even following a fundraiser.

The electrical I am extremely unclear about.  Jim has made comments
that work definitely needs to be done, and I trust him on that.  But I
also wonder how urgent parts of it are -- the power that runs along
the ceiling covers the majority of the space and worked for quite a
few sewing machines.  Could this not work for our purposes, at least
until we move on better footing?

The floor I do agree needs to be done up-front.  Obviously it would be
extremely difficult and annoying to work with this in an occupied
space.
But people have very differing views on what is needed to done.
Refinishing it would prove quite expensive I think (the sealer gets
very expensive, and the smell would stay for weeks).  I'm in the
opinion that a good cleaning would suffice.. one that is funded
primarily by volunteer work that I am sure we will have.

While I close, I'll acknowledge that many of you don't like the idea
of sitting in an unfinished space for a little bit.  But parts of 83c
were this way, and realism will need to set in.
Looking at other spaces, the price range was more often $4.5-5.5k/mo
for just rent.  Yes, the buildout costs would be far less at these
places.  But we wouldn't be able to afford the rent.  Additionally,
over the term of the lease, we'd spend more.
Also, keep in mind how crazy we are...  I think we need to be happy we
found a landlord crazier than we are to think it's a good idea to rent
to us :)

Finally, I will point out that our income will increase as we have a
new space.  At least some of the doubles will come through, I'm sure,
and more members will be attracted.  The ability to have fundraising
events becomes real, and we'll actually be able to get work done at
the space.
But the opposite side to that is that we are bursting at the seams at
83c.  We routinely have a severe excess of people, and tensions are
starting to rise.. I not only fear that our membership will not
increase much beyond its current level, but that people will start to
leave.  Already, many great people are avoiding the space because it's
unmanageable.  I personally encourage us to work hard on numbers, and
then do our best to approve this place if it's at all possible.
I fear we'll die slowly if not, or at least have our own recession.

Anyway, my rather long 2 cents...

Jeffrey

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 3:05 PM, aestetix aestetix<aestetix at gmail.com> wrote:
> Matt,
>
> You raise some very valid concerns.
>
> Perhaps the best way to address this is to list out each of your concerns so
> they can be addressed individually. This will also tend some transparency to
> the process, and help others to better understand where you are coming from,
> and help us all work together.
>
> aestetix
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Mitch Altman <maltman23 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I also have concerns about budget.  At the moment we do not have enough
>> money in the bank to go forward with a move to 2169 Mission that includes
>> the required build-up.  We will need to do some fund-raising.  How much
>> fund-raising depends on a budget.  If a few people can get together and
>> create a realistic (as best as possible) budget, then we can raise the
>> required funds.
>>
>>
>> At the moment we have $21,000 in the bank.
>>
>>
>> Any fund-raising will need to keep in mind that we need to have 3 months
>> of operating expenses in the bank.  Currently (at 83C Wiese, with $1975/mo
>> rent) our operating expenses have averaged $3900/month.
>>
>>
>> Mitch.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------
>>
>> > From: matt at peterson.org
>> > To: adi at hexapodia.org
>> > Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:41:07 -0700
>> > CC: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] 2169 Mission status
>> >
>> > Ok, my big concern is the budget. I hate to come across as the party
>> > pooper here. It's well known that house remodels and upgrades run
>> > over budget, particularly for newbies in this realm - I could only
>> > imagine commercial refurbs requiring even more knowledge. Do we have
>> > members or friends with intimate knowledge of the permitting process,
>> > contractor negotiation, parts sourcing, etc (ideally ones willing to
>> > step up and lead this)? Sai had valid points in this realm at the
>> > last meeting, however the overall excitement overruled him repeatedly
>> > from diving into this.
>> >
>> > I plan to block unless a detailed budget is published and agreed
>> > upon. Our treasurer should be presenting data that shows our /
>> > existing/ membership base allows us to afford this space for some time
>> > PLUS additional surplus from the recent fundraising round. Let's get
>> > actual quotes from contractors. Hand waving and "just trust us" isn't
>> > going to fly.
>> >
>> > In terms of the funds earmarked for the new space, to what extent do
>> > we limit purchases and upgrades? I see the most critical items being:
>> > bathroom(s)/shower, electrical, walls, kitchen and other common shared
>> > infrastructure. These are meant to meet ADA, building code
>> > worthiness, general safety and comfort requirements. What happens
>> > when funds are spent, on say on a meat-only storage freezer, color
>> > photo processing equipment or an industrial CNC machines (all
>> > hypothetical examples) - yielding gear that isn't "new space"
>> > specific; are funders Ok with these type of purchases?
>> >
>> > Again, not trying to come off as the nay-sayer here but we're flying
>> > blind from what I can gather currently. I'm very excited about the
>> > new space itself, the breathing room we'll have and fun network
>> > upgrades that will follow. Let's just be up front and realistic about
>> > the costs.
>> >
>> > --Matt
>> >
>> > On Jul 19, 2009, at 7:52 PM, Andy Isaacson wrote:
>> > >
>> > > The landlords apparently aren't interested in doing any work up-front,
>> > > so we'd be doing any work on our own dime and on our own time. We
>> > > requested that they replace the smaller (front) bathroom with a larger
>> > > bathroom (leaving the current rear bathroom in its current state) and
>> > > they declined.
>> > _______________________________________________
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>>
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