[Noisebridge-discuss] 2169 Mission status

Tue Jul 21 00:08:30 UTC 2009

Thanks for your stab at what seems like a reasonable budget.  I agree with Nils that cleaning does need to be included.  And we also need to include 3 months of operating expenses in our budget.

For the $3.9k per month operating expenses:  that figure is an actual average of our costs divided by the number of months we've been in existence (October through the end of May, when I calculated it).

Mitch.

-----------------

> From: ieatlint at tehinterweb.com
> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:37:36 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] 2169 Mission status
> To: aestetix at gmail.com
> CC: maltman23 at hotmail.com; adi at hexapodia.org; noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> 
> Okay,
> 
> Concerns are always valid, and I won't argue with anyone for bringing
> up any valid ones. This is in fact the whole basis of consensus.
> 
> So let me run some vague numbers here.
> 
> Our current income, which would need to be confirmed by our treasurer
> as I'm primarily using the google doc budget posted a while ago (
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=rfDTgx3F76nTE8ghiFDzr1g&hl=en
> ), appears to be $4.5k/mo for May and June.
> 
> This document also makes me question if our burn rate is actually
> $3.9k/mo. While averaging our expenses for the duration of 83c, that
> may be accurate, but that includes an inflated $4k/mo rent for the
> first two months (covering deposit and such), and about $3k in legal
> fees that I presume will be much less now that our 501c3 application
> process is lower. Our burn rate seems to be closer to $3-$3.2k.
> 
> Anyway, with our stated goal of 3 months expenses in the bank account
> for the new place, our new burn rate is of more concern.
> 
> $3.6k/mo for rent
> $180/mo for internet (which, btw, seems insanely high for our quality
> of service)
> +Insurance at an unknown rate
> +PG&E at an unknown rate.
> +Cleaning at an unknown rate
> 
> If we assume double for both, we'd get $4k for insurance annually (but
> paid up-front) and $600/mo for electricity (which isn't likely to
> actually be double). As for cleaning, I'm not sure as it also calls
> into question if we should try and solicit work from members/guests to
> cover this and try and save money.
> Without cleaning, and with my estimate for pg&e, we'd be looking at
> about $4.4k monthly burn rate, and $4k added to the startup cost.
> For safety, if we assume a $5k burn rate, then we'd need $15k in the
> bank to cover 3 months.
> 
> So, looking at this, we need these amounts before we can move:
> $15k for 3 months in the bank.
> $4k for insurance.
> $3.2k for final month at 83c.
> $3.2k for the first month at 2169 ($5k/mo - $1.8k break).
> The deposit which wasn't mentioned by andy, but I'll guess at $3.6k
> 
> That's $25.4k so far.
> PLUS buildout/cleaning and moving expenses (in the literal things from
> here to there), which are hard to estimate and vary wildly depending
> on our demands, desires and quotes we receive.
> 
> Right now, we have the $21k in the bank, $13.854k in pledges, and an
> expected $4k+ from dues on August 1.
> That's $38.854k, and assumes people pay their dues and honour their
> pledges (a reasonable assumption.. plus, the $4k is how much in dues
> we got in June, and should be more now).
> 
> This would leave $13.454k for buildout/cleaning and moving.
> 
> So, feel free to argue with and alter my numbers. We also need some
> estimates on how much it will cost to do the essential aspects of our
> move, which I do believe will push over that amount.
> 
> From what I hear, these are the main points:
> - Remodel a bathroom
> - Build a kitchen
> - Build partitions
> - Wire electrical
> - Floor
> 
> Most of you seem extremely intent on this bathroom. I personally feel
> that it would be nice, but not nearly as essential as some of you
> regard it.
> The kitchen is also something that I feel can be done for less. Yes,
> an electric range/oven, a fridge, counters and cabinets are needed.
> None of that would require a contractor or a permit.
> As for the sink, in my opinion it's a project that I would postpone.
> There is one there, and while it is entirely less than ideal for a
> kitchen, it does have running water and a drain. Also, the lack of a
> hot water heater is a definite acknowledged issue, and if we decide we
> need one, an electric one will be required.
> 
> As for the partitions... I definitely see the need for some. But I'm
> not as convinced this needs to be done instantly, or at least, all of
> them. I feel that much of it could be done at a later point --
> perhaps even following a fundraiser.
> 
> The electrical I am extremely unclear about. Jim has made comments
> that work definitely needs to be done, and I trust him on that. But I
> also wonder how urgent parts of it are -- the power that runs along
> the ceiling covers the majority of the space and worked for quite a
> few sewing machines. Could this not work for our purposes, at least
> until we move on better footing?
> 
> The floor I do agree needs to be done up-front. Obviously it would be
> extremely difficult and annoying to work with this in an occupied
> space.
> But people have very differing views on what is needed to done.
> Refinishing it would prove quite expensive I think (the sealer gets
> very expensive, and the smell would stay for weeks). I'm in the
> opinion that a good cleaning would suffice.. one that is funded
> primarily by volunteer work that I am sure we will have.
> 
> While I close, I'll acknowledge that many of you don't like the idea
> of sitting in an unfinished space for a little bit. But parts of 83c
> were this way, and realism will need to set in.
> Looking at other spaces, the price range was more often $4.5-5.5k/mo
> for just rent. Yes, the buildout costs would be far less at these
> places. But we wouldn't be able to afford the rent. Additionally,
> over the term of the lease, we'd spend more.
> Also, keep in mind how crazy we are... I think we need to be happy we
> found a landlord crazier than we are to think it's a good idea to rent
> to us :)
> 
> Finally, I will point out that our income will increase as we have a
> new space. At least some of the doubles will come through, I'm sure,
> and more members will be attracted. The ability to have fundraising
> events becomes real, and we'll actually be able to get work done at
> the space.
> But the opposite side to that is that we are bursting at the seams at
> 83c. We routinely have a severe excess of people, and tensions are
> starting to rise.. I not only fear that our membership will not
> increase much beyond its current level, but that people will start to
> leave. Already, many great people are avoiding the space because it's
> unmanageable. I personally encourage us to work hard on numbers, and
> then do our best to approve this place if it's at all possible.
> I fear we'll die slowly if not, or at least have our own recession.
> 
> Anyway, my rather long 2 cents...
> 
> Jeffrey
> 
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 3:05 PM, aestetix aestetix<aestetix at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Matt,
> >
> > You raise some very valid concerns.
> >
> > Perhaps the best way to address this is to list out each of your concerns so
> > they can be addressed individually. This will also tend some transparency to
> > the process, and help others to better understand where you are coming from,
> > and help us all work together.
> >
> > aestetix
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Mitch Altman <maltman23 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I also have concerns about budget.  At the moment we do not have enough
> >> money in the bank to go forward with a move to 2169 Mission that includes
> >> the required build-up.  We will need to do some fund-raising.  How much
> >> fund-raising depends on a budget.  If a few people can get together and
> >> create a realistic (as best as possible) budget, then we can raise the
> >> required funds.
> >>
> >>
> >> At the moment we have $21,000 in the bank.
> >>
> >>
> >> Any fund-raising will need to keep in mind that we need to have 3 months
> >> of operating expenses in the bank.  Currently (at 83C Wiese, with $1975/mo
> >> rent) our operating expenses have averaged $3900/month.
> >>
> >>
> >> Mitch.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------
> >>
> >> > From: matt at peterson.org
> >> > To: adi at hexapodia.org
> >> > Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:41:07 -0700
> >> > CC: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> > Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] 2169 Mission status
> >> >
> >> > Ok, my big concern is the budget. I hate to come across as the party
> >> > pooper here. It's well known that house remodels and upgrades run
> >> > over budget, particularly for newbies in this realm - I could only
> >> > imagine commercial refurbs requiring even more knowledge. Do we have
> >> > members or friends with intimate knowledge of the permitting process,
> >> > contractor negotiation, parts sourcing, etc (ideally ones willing to
> >> > step up and lead this)? Sai had valid points in this realm at the
> >> > last meeting, however the overall excitement overruled him repeatedly
> >> > from diving into this.
> >> >
> >> > I plan to block unless a detailed budget is published and agreed
> >> > upon. Our treasurer should be presenting data that shows our /
> >> > existing/ membership base allows us to afford this space for some time
> >> > PLUS additional surplus from the recent fundraising round. Let's get
> >> > actual quotes from contractors. Hand waving and "just trust us" isn't
> >> > going to fly.
> >> >
> >> > In terms of the funds earmarked for the new space, to what extent do
> >> > we limit purchases and upgrades? I see the most critical items being:
> >> > bathroom(s)/shower, electrical, walls, kitchen and other common shared
> >> > infrastructure. These are meant to meet ADA, building code
> >> > worthiness, general safety and comfort requirements. What happens
> >> > when funds are spent, on say on a meat-only storage freezer, color
> >> > photo processing equipment or an industrial CNC machines (all
> >> > hypothetical examples) - yielding gear that isn't "new space"
> >> > specific; are funders Ok with these type of purchases?
> >> >
> >> > Again, not trying to come off as the nay-sayer here but we're flying
> >> > blind from what I can gather currently. I'm very excited about the
> >> > new space itself, the breathing room we'll have and fun network
> >> > upgrades that will follow. Let's just be up front and realistic about
> >> > the costs.
> >> >
> >> > --Matt
> >> >
> >> > On Jul 19, 2009, at 7:52 PM, Andy Isaacson wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > The landlords apparently aren't interested in doing any work up-front,
> >> > > so we'd be doing any work on our own dime and on our own time. We
> >> > > requested that they replace the smaller (front) bathroom with a larger
> >> > > bathroom (leaving the current rear bathroom in its current state) and
> >> > > they declined.
> >> > _______________________________________________
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> >> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
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> >
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