[Noisebridge-discuss] noise at noisebridge

Sun Mar 1 23:58:33 UTC 2009

I think this discussion is an important one in many ways.  I think a lot of
people might agree with me that when dealing with people like us it's
probably not entirely safe to consider common sense in social situations to
be universal.  Besides, I think our values are different enough from the
mainstream that it is worth articulating them a little bit.

I think we could benefit from an exercise that's popular in project
management: "Is/is not".  I'm not talking about hard and fast rules, more
like setting expectations.  Basically, if we list what we expect the space
is and what we expect the space to not be, then we'll all get along better.
Maybe we could add it to the wiki if people think it's a good idea.  I can
start with my expectations:

Noisebridge IS a space where interesting things happen.
Noisebridge IS a space where people can drop in and work on projects.
Noisebridge IS a space where you can reasonably expect to hold a
conversation without being interrupted.
Noisebridge IS NOT a space where you should have to wear headphones to keep
from being bothered.
Noisebridge IS NOT a library (although we have one!).  Noise and Noisebridge
are not incompatible.
Noisebridge IS a space where you can hang out and talk to friends.
Noisebridge IS NOT a party space.  Parties interrupt other activites.

What do you think?

Christie

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Mitch Altman <maltman23 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>  One of the (several) explicit goals at the outset of Noisebridge was to
> have a space where people could come to hang out, to create a geek community
> space.  Lots of people don't have projects in mind that they want to play
> with or work on, and coming to a space where there are people already
> working and playing on projects can be a great inspiration and motivation
> for others.
>
>
> Balancing all of this has its challenges.  We certainly don't want a space
> where it is only allowed to work on projects without talking to one
> another.  And we don't simply want a hangout space, where few people feel
> comfortable working and playing on their projects.  And I don't think
> we want a space where everyone is wearing headphones and not open to
> communication with anyone else in the space.  It seems to me that hanging
> out and working and playing aren't mutually exclusive of one another.  We do
> need to remember to be excellent to one another.  To me that means
> respecting one another.  And respecting one another's boundaries.  For
> instance, if someone is busy playing or working on their project, I would
> hope that it would be fine to ask them if it's OK to ask them a question, or
> if it's OK to talk to them.  And I would also hope that it is fine to
> answer, nicely, "no."
>
>
> We do need to keep in mind that not all of us geeks have the greatest
> social skills.  So, if someone is seeming bothersome, it's probably
> not because they're purposely trying to be annoying.  If you're feeling
> annoyed by someone in the space, it is up to you to let them know (as
> obvious as it is to each of us when we're feeling annoyed, others can't read
> our minds, so we have to let them know).  And it should be possible to do
> this while being excellent to one another.  No need to be mean or a jerk
> about it.  Like, maybe:  e.g., "I'm sorry, but I'm trying to get some work
> done, and can't talk now."  So far that's worked very well for me.
>
>
> On the other hand, one of the reasons I love being at Noisebridge is to
> help others with their projects, or to inspire others to explore what they
> may want to work on or play with.  I realize that's not everyone's desire or
> role.  And we all have different desires for what we want out of
> Noisebridge.  I hope we can respect all of each others' desires and goals
> and roles.
>
>
> Mitch.
>
>
>
>
> --------------------
>
>
> > Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 13:33:14 -0800
> > From: quinn at quinnnorton.com
> > To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] noise at noisebridge
>
> >
> >
> > this thread is getting very hackier than thou, which i find dissapointing
> >
> > On Sun, 1 Mar 2009, peter wrote:
> >
> > > Re: Josh's comment.
> > >
> > > Thank you for reminding us all that this is meant to be a space
> > > specifically for hacking projects. While I am not a great offender on
> > > this front, I, at times, find myself treating noisebridge as a hangout
> > > space. We can all hang out anywhere! Let's try to keep a space
> > > dedicated to hacking for hacking.
> > >
> > > Which is not to say that there is no place for socializing at
> > > noisebridge, but srsly, let's try to focus on hacking at the hacking
> > > space, shall we :)
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Paul Böhm <paul at boehm.org> wrote:
> > > > Well,
> > > >
> > > > personally i've managed to tell people clearly i don't want to listen
> > > > to their bullshit - and that works.
> > > > having to overhear nonsense is hard, but headphones work.
> > > >
> > > > however i'm worried that if we have too much nonsense-talking people
> here, then
> > > > only people with a very high tolerance for nonsense and bullshit will
> > > > stick around.
> > > >
> > > > this is especially true since the people i'm thinking about, almost
> > > > hunt after newcomers, who are too polite to verbalize that after 15
> > > > minutes of nonsense they are feeling really uncomfortable.
> > > >
> > > > paul
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Josh Myer <josh at joshisanerd.com>
> wrote:
> > > >> On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 06:54:36PM -0800, Paul Böhm wrote:
> > > >>> ok, my brain is about to explode - there's people here at nb who
> > > >>> constantly babble nonsense because they are attention starved
> > > >>> this alienates newcomers (since they haven't learned to ignore
> these
> > > >>> people yet) and makes me want to avoid noisebridge
> > > >>>
> > > >>> opinions on this?
> > > >>
> > > >> I totally agree with the frustration, and feel it acutely.  As for
> > > >> fixes: Wear headphones?  Set expectations that you're not someone
> > > >> who's going to just listen?  These two strategies have served me
> well
> > > >> thus far...  Then again, I'm pretty comfortable with being a jerk.
> > > >>
> > > >> In the same vein, we have a lot of people who think of noisebridge
> as
> > > >> a place to hang out, not a place to come and hack.  It's frustrating
> > > >> many of us, especially because we haven't found a good way to say
> > > >> "It's awesome that you're here, and we'd love to help you work on
> > > >> stuff.  What do you want to work on, and how can our community help
> > > >> you accomplish that?"  It's sort of insidious: there's nobody who is
> > > >> clearly abusing the space, it's just that people's behaviors are
> > > >> shifting the way people use the space.  noisebridge is inadvertantly
> > > >> becoming a place to come and surf youtube in the evening instead of
> a
> > > >> place to hang out with others who are soldering, coding, or sewing.
> > > >>
> > > >> Personally, I only come in to work/collaborate on specific things.
> > > >> It's kind of a bummer, but it's not so bad.  I wind up being a
> > > >> floating question-answerer (or, at least, reference-pointer-outer)
> > > >> anyway, so I get sucked into interesting things beyond my little
> > > >> focus.  If I was less flexible or pragmatic about how I used my time
> > > >> in the space, though, this would be incredibly frustrating.
> > > >>
> > > >> I think the general problem of people-who-are-distracting is solved
> > > >> with a single question: how do we integrate people into our
> do-acracy
> > > >> and minimize idle hands at 83c?
> > > >> --
> > > >> Josh Myer   650.248.3796
> > > >>  josh at joshisanerd.com
> > > >>
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > > > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> >
> > Freelance Journalist & Photographer
> >
> > quinnnorton.com || +1 408 813 8064 || aim, skype, msn: ambiguousquinn
> >
> > "Samual Beckett once said: 'Every word is like an unnecessary strain
> > on silence and nothingness.'
> >
> > On the other hand, he SAID it."
> > - Art Spiegeleman
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>

-- 
-- 
Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err.
~ Mohandas K. (Mahatma) Gandhi

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what
they do not want to hear.
~ George Orwell

Freedom is the will to be responsible to ourselves.
~ Friedrich Nietzsche
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