[Noisebridge-discuss] noise at noisebridge

Mon Mar 2 00:12:06 UTC 2009

The last one I wholeheartedly agree with. I was there with you when we had a
massive amount of people coming in from another unrelated event close by
that seriously interrupted the things that people were already working on. I
knew a fair amount of these people and I like them (the party led to at
least one person wanting to become a member though) but it was very
disruptive to have an unannounced event with a fairly large crowd that
seemingly appeared out of nowhere when people are already doing other
activities.

-Ani

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Christie Dudley <longobord at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think this discussion is an important one in many ways.  I think a lot of
> people might agree with me that when dealing with people like us it's
> probably not entirely safe to consider common sense in social situations to
> be universal.  Besides, I think our values are different enough from the
> mainstream that it is worth articulating them a little bit.
>
> I think we could benefit from an exercise that's popular in project
> management: "Is/is not".  I'm not talking about hard and fast rules, more
> like setting expectations.  Basically, if we list what we expect the space
> is and what we expect the space to not be, then we'll all get along better.
> Maybe we could add it to the wiki if people think it's a good idea.  I can
> start with my expectations:
>
> Noisebridge IS a space where interesting things happen.
> Noisebridge IS a space where people can drop in and work on projects.
> Noisebridge IS a space where you can reasonably expect to hold a
> conversation without being interrupted.
> Noisebridge IS NOT a space where you should have to wear headphones to keep
> from being bothered.
> Noisebridge IS NOT a library (although we have one!).  Noise and
> Noisebridge are not incompatible.
> Noisebridge IS a space where you can hang out and talk to friends.
> Noisebridge IS NOT a party space.  Parties interrupt other activites.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Christie
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Mitch Altman <maltman23 at hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>>  One of the (several) explicit goals at the outset of Noisebridge was to
>> have a space where people could come to hang out, to create a geek community
>> space.  Lots of people don't have projects in mind that they want to play
>> with or work on, and coming to a space where there are people already
>> working and playing on projects can be a great inspiration and motivation
>> for others.
>>
>>
>> Balancing all of this has its challenges.  We certainly don't want a space
>> where it is only allowed to work on projects without talking to one
>> another.  And we don't simply want a hangout space, where few people feel
>> comfortable working and playing on their projects.  And I don't think
>> we want a space where everyone is wearing headphones and not open to
>> communication with anyone else in the space.  It seems to me that hanging
>> out and working and playing aren't mutually exclusive of one another.  We do
>> need to remember to be excellent to one another.  To me that means
>> respecting one another.  And respecting one another's boundaries.  For
>> instance, if someone is busy playing or working on their project, I would
>> hope that it would be fine to ask them if it's OK to ask them a question, or
>> if it's OK to talk to them.  And I would also hope that it is fine to
>> answer, nicely, "no."
>>
>>
>> We do need to keep in mind that not all of us geeks have the greatest
>> social skills.  So, if someone is seeming bothersome, it's probably
>> not because they're purposely trying to be annoying.  If you're feeling
>> annoyed by someone in the space, it is up to you to let them know (as
>> obvious as it is to each of us when we're feeling annoyed, others can't read
>> our minds, so we have to let them know).  And it should be possible to do
>> this while being excellent to one another.  No need to be mean or a jerk
>> about it.  Like, maybe:  e.g., "I'm sorry, but I'm trying to get some work
>> done, and can't talk now."  So far that's worked very well for me.
>>
>>
>> On the other hand, one of the reasons I love being at Noisebridge is to
>> help others with their projects, or to inspire others to explore what they
>> may want to work on or play with.  I realize that's not everyone's desire or
>> role.  And we all have different desires for what we want out of
>> Noisebridge.  I hope we can respect all of each others' desires and goals
>> and roles.
>>
>>
>> Mitch.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------
>>
>>
>> > Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 13:33:14 -0800
>> > From: quinn at quinnnorton.com
>> > To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] noise at noisebridge
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > this thread is getting very hackier than thou, which i find
>> dissapointing
>> >
>> > On Sun, 1 Mar 2009, peter wrote:
>> >
>> > > Re: Josh's comment.
>> > >
>> > > Thank you for reminding us all that this is meant to be a space
>> > > specifically for hacking projects. While I am not a great offender on
>> > > this front, I, at times, find myself treating noisebridge as a hangout
>> > > space. We can all hang out anywhere! Let's try to keep a space
>> > > dedicated to hacking for hacking.
>> > >
>> > > Which is not to say that there is no place for socializing at
>> > > noisebridge, but srsly, let's try to focus on hacking at the hacking
>> > > space, shall we :)
>> > >
>> > > Best,
>> > > Peter
>> > >
>> > > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Paul Böhm <paul at boehm.org> wrote:
>> > > > Well,
>> > > >
>> > > > personally i've managed to tell people clearly i don't want to
>> listen
>> > > > to their bullshit - and that works.
>> > > > having to overhear nonsense is hard, but headphones work.
>> > > >
>> > > > however i'm worried that if we have too much nonsense-talking people
>> here, then
>> > > > only people with a very high tolerance for nonsense and bullshit
>> will
>> > > > stick around.
>> > > >
>> > > > this is especially true since the people i'm thinking about, almost
>> > > > hunt after newcomers, who are too polite to verbalize that after 15
>> > > > minutes of nonsense they are feeling really uncomfortable.
>> > > >
>> > > > paul
>> > > >
>> > > > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Josh Myer <josh at joshisanerd.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > >> On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 06:54:36PM -0800, Paul Böhm wrote:
>> > > >>> ok, my brain is about to explode - there's people here at nb who
>> > > >>> constantly babble nonsense because they are attention starved
>> > > >>> this alienates newcomers (since they haven't learned to ignore
>> these
>> > > >>> people yet) and makes me want to avoid noisebridge
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> opinions on this?
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I totally agree with the frustration, and feel it acutely.  As for
>> > > >> fixes: Wear headphones?  Set expectations that you're not someone
>> > > >> who's going to just listen?  These two strategies have served me
>> well
>> > > >> thus far...  Then again, I'm pretty comfortable with being a jerk.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> In the same vein, we have a lot of people who think of noisebridge
>> as
>> > > >> a place to hang out, not a place to come and hack.  It's
>> frustrating
>> > > >> many of us, especially because we haven't found a good way to say
>> > > >> "It's awesome that you're here, and we'd love to help you work on
>> > > >> stuff.  What do you want to work on, and how can our community help
>> > > >> you accomplish that?"  It's sort of insidious: there's nobody who
>> is
>> > > >> clearly abusing the space, it's just that people's behaviors are
>> > > >> shifting the way people use the space.  noisebridge is
>> inadvertantly
>> > > >> becoming a place to come and surf youtube in the evening instead of
>> a
>> > > >> place to hang out with others who are soldering, coding, or sewing.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Personally, I only come in to work/collaborate on specific things.
>> > > >> It's kind of a bummer, but it's not so bad.  I wind up being a
>> > > >> floating question-answerer (or, at least, reference-pointer-outer)
>> > > >> anyway, so I get sucked into interesting things beyond my little
>> > > >> focus.  If I was less flexible or pragmatic about how I used my
>> time
>> > > >> in the space, though, this would be incredibly frustrating.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I think the general problem of people-who-are-distracting is solved
>> > > >> with a single question: how do we integrate people into our
>> do-acracy
>> > > >> and minimize idle hands at 83c?
>> > > >> --
>> > > >> Josh Myer   650.248.3796
>> > > >>  josh at joshisanerd.com
>> > > >>
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> > > > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > > > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> > > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
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>> > > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> > >
>> >
>> > Freelance Journalist & Photographer
>> >
>> > quinnnorton.com || +1 408 813 8064 || aim, skype, msn: ambiguousquinn
>> >
>> > "Samual Beckett once said: 'Every word is like an unnecessary strain
>> > on silence and nothingness.'
>> >
>> > On the other hand, he SAID it."
>> > - Art Spiegeleman
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> --
> Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err.
> ~ Mohandas K. (Mahatma) Gandhi
>
> If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what
> they do not want to hear.
> ~ George Orwell
>
> Freedom is the will to be responsible to ourselves.
> ~ Friedrich Nietzsche
>
>
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