[Noisebridge-discuss] Another DIYbio thread!

Tue Mar 31 03:18:33 UTC 2009

It's good to hear from you.  Although I must confess this email baffles me.
I'm really confused as to what the cross-polination is that you're referring
to.  I think a lot of folks would agree that a great deal of our frustration
with this whole thing is the lack of dialog between the bio folks and the
membership of Noisebridge.  Although space is a very serious issue right
now, that isn't central to the problem, and your assumption that it is only
seems to illustrate how far apart we are on this.

I'm sure you would have understood this if you'd kept up with the
discussions going on in various places.  Yes, we're a wordy bunch (as
evidinced by today's flurry of activity.)  If you're willing to work
together in a coordinated fashion I genuinely believe we can work something
out space- and safety- wise.  In addition to sharing space, we need to share
the administrative overhead that comes with "getting along together" and
work everything out in through the consensus process that's part of our
founding principles.

I'm sure you can understand that the last thing we want is to see our
resources: space, money and energy poured into a black hole that nothing
comes out of.  To date, that's all we've experienced.  We have a number of
"interest groups" such as cyborg/sensebridge, OpenEEG and Machine learning
that all act as subgroups from the main group.  DIY bio is unique in that it
seems to be operating indepenently but colocated in Noisebridge, with
occasional announcements to this list that something's happening.

I see a lot of potential here for shared information as well as shared
resources, but I'm not sure folks with the DIY bio are willing to do what it
would take - come fully under the Noisebridge umbrella - to make us work and
live well together.  If you think that can happen, I think we really can get
something good going.

Christie

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 7:15 PM, Tito Jankowski <titojankowski at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> I'm also thankful -- Noisebridge has been most excellent to the DIYbio
> group. I've attended all of the DIYbio meetings held at NB and I feel that
> the direction of DIYbio is influenced from our time there.
>
> Sure, if we got serious we could sequester ourselves in some commercial
> space elsewhere in the Bay. But that lack of cross pollination *exactly*
> what's wrong with biotech -- and that's what DIYbio is fighting against. The
> evolution and exchange that happens at Noisebridge is very much in the
> spirit of DIYbio -- and I'm wondering how to preserve this. How can we
> democratize biotech in a safe, productive way?
>
> 1. One way to do this is by being physically close to other hackers. Josh
> makes a good point -- what, loosely, would be involved in securing space
> next to Noisebridge for DIYbio?
>
> 2. Another option is to find out own place -- and get help with setting up
> our leadership, management, and culture. Maybe start with that "how to start
> a hackerspace" pdf I saw floating around.
>
> I look forward to working with you all, and learning more about the blood
> and sweat that you put down, and hopefully sharing trick or two about
> biotech with you!
>
> Tito
>
>
> On Mar 30, 2009, at 3:29 PM, Josh Perfetto wrote:
>
> Hello all at NB,
>
> I helped the DIYbio group with the experiment over the weekend, and would
> like to provide some information on the current situation & thoughts on
> future relations.
>
> The experiment which was begun over the weekend is essentially the “hello
> world” of synthetic biology: transforming a plasmid containing the GFP gene
> into E. Coli, so that the bacteria will fluoresce under UV light.  It is
> very basic and many of the materials used in this experiment are from a kit
> that is routinely used in high school biology labs.  There are materials in
> this kit that you shouldn’t ingest like a Calcium Chloride solution which
> you shouldn’t ingest, but doesn’t pose a particularly great safety risk, and
> I am sure there are many liquids and other objects at NB that you shouldn’t
> ingest either.  There is also a laboratory strain of E. Coli in the kit (not
> the same as the pathogenic strains you often hear about causing food
> contamination).  This should actually be safe for people with normal immune
> systems to ingest, though there should be no reason for anyone to do this,
> and the closed culture tubes sitting in a dedicated fridge should pose no
> risk to anyone.
>
> I helped the group create this safety guidelines & protocol page
> https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Noisebridge_Lab_Safety_and_Ethics_Page .
>  I believe these guidelines & protocols suffice for the current “hello
> world” experiment, though not necessarily all work going forward.  If you
> look at the bottom, I pointed out that NB does not have proper hazardous
> materials processes or licenses in place, and therefore I believe that these
> materials should not be brought into NB at this time.  I also just updated
> your Safety wiki page to link to the lab safety page as well.
>
> I do have some thoughts and concerns with things moving forward which are
> really just coming from myself (not representing the entire SF DIYbio group
> here), but this seems like a good time to share them.
>
> First as others have pointed out there is clearly some communication
> problems between these two groups, and I think the idea of making Praveen an
> ambassador would be excellent.  I can’t really play this role as I’m not
> able to regularly attend your meetings and am not that familiar with NB.
>
> But secondly here’s some thoughts on NB/DIYBio.  As I mentioned above, the
> experiment the group is currently doing is really basic, and NB has been
> very generous in letting this group use its space.  I think there’s going to
> be a limit though in how much the group is going to be able to achieve in
> this current environment.  I’ve only visited NB twice, and what I’ve seen is
> an awesome bunch of shared hardware hacking equipment, shared table space,
> some storage space, and everything is totally jam packed :)  That’s not that
> different than a bio lab, except that the shared equipment is rather
> different as well as the types of surfaces.  We’ve seen the space issues
> just a single fridge has brought, but such a fridge is just one small part
> of common lab equipment.  I really like the environment and group governance
> systems that NB has setup, and I think DIYbio could benefit a lot from this,
> as well as the proximity to all of the other work going on at NB (there is a
> lot of hardware hacking needed as well for biology).  I just think that at a
> point, a larger amount of dedicated physical space is going to be required
> for equipment storage, safety equipment (fume hood/bio safety cabinet), safe
> storage of reagents, etc.  NB wouldn’t be what it is if it didn’t have room
> for all the equipment it currently has.
>
> I’m throwing this out there now to get your take on this and see what the
> interest level is in potentially creating such a space if you were to expand
> (can’t really see how it could be done without expanding given the current
> size of the space).  If there might be interest it would be good to figure
> out what it might take (i.e. there would have to be X new members to support
> the space financially).  If more involved work was to take place at NB, then
> it probably would also be necessary to figure out how to safely store
> chemicals that are much more dangerous than those being discussed at
> present, hazardous waste disposal processes & permits, necessary segregation
> of activities, etc.
>
> I think part of the problems being experienced is because SF DIYbio is
> currently in a bit of a neitherland in terms of its home and needs to
> eventually pick a location and settle down.  The group is currently looking
> at a number of options, of which NB is one, and if NB is to become the home,
> then eventually this relationship needs to become more formalized (with
> DIYbio members becoming NB members etc).  If another location becomes the
> physical home, I think there may still be many interesting opportunities for
> the two groups to collaborate on projects.  And regardless, NB has been very
> generous with its space while this all gets worked out, and I hope everyone
> recognizes this.
>
> -Josh
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-- 
I refuse to give up childish things.
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