[Noisebridge-discuss] Sleeping at NB

[Jacob Appelbaum]

On 12/22/2010 05:18 PM, rachel lyra hospodar wrote:
> I am pretty sure that at the meeting about sleeping in the space, we
> discussed missing BART as not being a very excellent reason to crash, since
> there are all-night buses and lots of other options.
> 

The meeting? Surely you jest! :-)

> I am also pretty sure that without some kind of concerted effort to pay
> attention to who is sleeping, there is no real way to know if they are
> people who just need a place to sleep (who could be redirected to resources
> that exist for that purpose) or people who are interested in noisebridge as
> a place to accomplish shit, who might happen to be taking part in a
> not-totally excellent activity. I would put email flaming nastiness in this
> same category, ie things that I occasionally tolerate without judgement from
> people who have otherwise redeeming qualities.

That's just why I suggest we try to understand each situation. There is
no way to know for sure and I don't think we should create a
mini-surveillance state that even attempts to understand the problem in
detail.

> 
> Without this effort taking place in person it will have little effect.
> Without it taking place electronically it will have little momentum.  Both
> are, to me, clearly necessary.

I guess?

> 
> I will repeat what is starting to be my (other, safety being the first)
> noisebridge refrain: rather than commenting negatively on what has been
> done, I would like to discuss positively what could be done.
> 

I think I suggested a positive approach - People who care should try to
understand why someone is taking a specific action. To discuss this
topic with sleeping or napping folks probably requires engagement and
good listening skills.

> Jake, I have been in and out of the space for 6+ months and haven't met you
> there yet. Someone mentioned to me that you might live in seattle? 

I've certainly been to Noisebridge many times in the last six months. I
do in-fact live in Seattle most of the time.

>If you
> haven't been around a lot lately then maybe you aren't aware of the extent
> of the problem. 

Ah - I think you misunderstand. I don't really think it's a problem that
some people have used Noisebridge as a crash space - the most well know
person was also the main person cooking, cleaning, hacking, and planning
other spaces in places that really want them (Cuba, Mexico, other places).

I think it wasn't the best situation but I also think you could hardly
call him a problem. I have a harder time calling his actions a problem.

> I have done lots of harm reduction and have friends who are
> homeless and/or computer illiterate.  This is not about those things.  It is
> a heated discussion but at heart I believe it is about the same thing last
> night's meeting was about: a desire on many people's part to help steer our
> crazy ship constantly hackwards and anti-slackwards.

I don't think hacking and slacking are opposites. If you want to see
some hacking, hack the motherfucking planet already.

> 
> Some vaguely metaphorical things I thought worth saying to all:
> -sometimes projects (indeed, and life) take longer than expected or leave a
> mess.
> -sometimes we all forget something.
> -the only way for the mess to be held at bay is if we all help each other
> clean it up.
> -you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Vinegar might seem to punish
> those pesky flies but if your goal is to influence behavior the reward is
> proven to be more effective than punishment.
> 
> Sooooo,
> IF we believe that passing out in a public location should be
> non-photographable in our community, let's brainstorm some other ways to
> have an online component to our Campaign Against Sleep.

It's not that it shouldn't be photograph-able - it's that it's a dick
move to photograph someone, put the photo on the wiki and then announce
it to the world by way of a mailing list that is archived by the rest of
the internet. It's even worse to me when the person doing it is just as
much of a stranger to me as the person in the photograph.

"What? Who are these people and what are they doing on the Noisebridge
lawn? Why are they acting like jerks?"

All the best,
Jake