[Noisebridge-discuss] Charging for classes at Noisebridge

[Ani Niow]

I'm curious, have the people that are so adamantly against paid classes at
Noisebridge ever properly taught a class at NB or elsewhere? I'm not talking
a one-off workshop, I'm talking like a more intensive program where you're
learning about a specific subject or skill.

Well, I have. And the courses I helped teach were thankfully free to attend
since we were able to get enough grant money from various donors in order to
help pay for materials and yes, our salaries. Would I have taught these
things if I wasn't compensated for my time? Hell no. A one-off workshop is
one thing but I don't think Josh is talking about that. My classes were two
weeks each and it was a full time job plus some overtime. Teaching is damned
hard work and no way would I have given something that intensive away for
free. I think its a bit hypocritical that people distinguish from material
goods and labour and how one is somehow worth paying money for and one
isn't. They're not that much different.

There's a variety of different models out there for financing classes listed
on this thread already and I would absolutely not attempt to ban any of them
from Noisebridge. I know we're trying to be different than a lot of other
organisations out there and I'm all for that. The people that attend and
teach here aren't any different than anyone else out there however. They
need to pay rent and eat too.

Last I checked one didn't need permission to do most things at Noisebridge,
including holding classes. If someone wants to host a for paid class than by
all means let them. We're all one big experiment here, what's the harm in
experimenting with this? The worst that could happen is it fails miserably.
There's only one way to find out...


-Ani



On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Leif Ryge <leif at synthesize.us> wrote:

> On 07/17/2010 01:57 AM, Naomi Most wrote:
> > To summarize my own position:  I'm pro for-pay classes as a means of
> > attracting and keeping nifty people at Noisebridge, and I don't see
> > any downsides to allowing it.
> >
> You don't see any downsides? A bunch of downsides (to having them
> regularly; I think we all agree that "allowing" anything is not an
> issue) have been raised. Are you just implicitly rejecting all of them?
> Because, you didn't respond to any of the downsides, you only responded
> to some easily-surmountable implementation details.
>
> Another downside which I only barely touched on but I think is pretty
> obvious is that after there are a few regular pay classes there will be
> more and eventually there will be less free classes. In this scenario,
> Noisebridge becomes just another mundane school in the city, where
> people who can afford it pay for classes and people who can't don't feel
> welcome. I know I'm not the the only NB member who doesn't have any
> interest in supporting a place like that.
>
> I think rubin said it pretty well:
> > Part of the reason I pay dues is to support free classes (with the
> > exception of asking for money to cover class materials, etc). I think
> > that the fact that we have classes for free has brought in more members
> > into the space then any other effort put together by our community. In
> > my humble opinion charging for classes will be more of a negative impact
> > financially in the long run.
> >
> > To both of those point, if classes held at Noisebridge were to start
> > charging in general, then I would discontinue paying my dues.
> >
> Are you sure you don't see any downsides?
>
> Are you actually intending convey the message "I understand that doing
> this could cause us to lose some members, but I don't see that as a
> downside" ?
>
> Over the last year, I've seen the faces of countless people light up
> when upon hearing that every event at Noisebridge is free. On more than
> one occasion I've seen people ask how they can join (and then add their
> name to the membership binder) immediately upon hearing that everything
> is equally free for members and non-members alike. The awesomeness of
> our radical inclusionism should not be underestimated.
>
> There's no shortage of venues for paid classes in San Francisco.
> However, I don't know of anywhere else where all classes are free where
> you can learn the kind of things people learn at Noisebridge. I think
> being open to everyone, regardless of their financial status, is an
> essential part of our successful formula. We've got a
> golden-egg-laying-goose here, people. I can't stop you from killing it,
> but I can ask you not to.
>
> Please don't charge for classes at Noisebridge.
>
> ~leif
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