[Noisebridge-discuss] Proposal: Discounted full-year dues

Rachel McConnell rachel at xtreme.com
Wed Jun 16 22:04:01 UTC 2010


I think that ensuring that each member pays their dues, at least mostly,
is the solution that will work for the entire group in the long run.  I
don't think people are consciously blowing us off, i think they simply
forget, and then six months later they are like, oh, i paid ... a little
while ago?  I think?  So I believe the first need is a system that
tracks who has paid their dues and (ideally automatically) emails people
with a reminder periodically until they have paid.  After we do that we
can see if we need to put in any kinds of discounts.

(Leif, a percentage discount over a whole year, paid at once, is more
money than N (<12) monthly payments and a big OOPS-I-FORGOT.)

I've pinged Hackerdojo to ask about their system which Christie
mentioned.  I will volunteer to evaluate that, if possible, and report
back.  Will someone else evaluate Miah's suggestion of Salesforce, and
maybe a third person evaluate the suggestion I also saw which was bottom
posted, an hour or two ago?

My take on the requirements for such a system are:

* can track dues payments by member identifier (alias, email address,
whatever anonymous key we want)
* can automatically email those who are N days late
* is easy for the treasurer to keep up to date

Rachel

aestetix aestetix wrote:
> I don't think it's really fair to qualify whether a group is alive or
> dead based on financial numbers. It's more of a mentality and motivation
> of the people. If a group is in danger for whatever reason, be it
> financial, political, or anything else, having a call to bring people
> together to save the group proves that it's alive and well.
> 
> It's just like my teacher used to say during the Iraq War debate: lots
> of bickering about what should be done actually means there are a lot of
> people who care. I think rather than fingerpointing and ensuring each
> member pays their dues, we should band together, help each other out
> where we can, and figure out a solution that works for the entire group
> in the long term.
> 
> aestetix
> 
> PS: I am not a communist.
> 
> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 2:30 PM, jim <jim at well.com
> <mailto:jim at well.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>     there's a difference between dying and dead, too.
>     general rule of thumb is to have about six months
>     expenses in the bank and start panicking when it
>     gets down to three. time to panic, according to
>     the general rule.
> 
> 
> 
>     On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 12:40 -0700, aestetix aestetix wrote:
>     > Are we actually in the red?
>     >
>     > There's a big difference between not having a few months wiggleroom,
>     > and having our checks bounce.
>     >
>     > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Rachel McConnell
>     <rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>>
>     > wrote:
>     >         oooh I had no idea!  yeah i'll get in touch with them right
>     >         away.  i did
>     >         search various open source repos and found nothing useful...
>     >
>     >         Christie Dudley wrote:
>     >         > Katie from Hacker Dojo was mentioning they'd put together a
>     >         complete
>     >         > open source package for managing things, including payment
>     >         tracking and
>     >         > so forth that they're interested in sharing.  It might not
>     >         be a bad
>     >         > idea, and foster a bit of goodwill if we at least had a look
>     >         at that,
>     >         > don't you think?
>     >         >
>     >         > The problem may already be solved for us.
>     >         >
>     >         > Christie
>     >         > _______
>     >         > "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from
>     >         mediocrities.
>     >         > The latter cannot understand it when a man does not
>     >         thoughtlessly submit
>     >         > to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses
>     >         his
>     >         > intelligence." -- Albert Einstein
>     >         >
>     >         >
>     >         > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Rachel McConnell
>     >         <rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>
>     >
>     >
>     >         > <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>>>
>     wrote:
>     >         >
>     >         >     It's all done by hand right now, there's no automation.
>     >          I mean the bank
>     >         >     account (and paypal, etc) tracks that $X has shown up,
>     >         but there isn't
>     >         >     any system to associate it with a particular member.
>     >          Sometimes a
>     >         >     payment comes with a note; if it's a check you have to
>     >         go look at the
>     >         >     name on the check, etc.
>     >         >
>     >         >     jim wrote:
>     >         >     >    Y'all have reminded me of payment, so there must
>     >         >     > be some tracking in place, yes?
>     >         >     >
>     >         >     >
>     >         >     >
>     >         >     > On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 10:29 -0700, Rachel McConnell
>     >         wrote:
>     >         >     >> I like this in theory but in practice it would be
>     >         folly to officially
>     >         >     >> promote it until we have an accounting system that
>     >         can support it.
>     >         >     >> Already we don't know who is paid up and who isn't;
>     >         work is
>     >         >     underway on
>     >         >     >> a system to manage this but let's get it working
>     >         first before we make
>     >         >     >> massive changes to it.
>     >         >     >>
>     >         >     >> Rachel
>     >         >     >>
>     >         >     >> jim wrote:
>     >         >     >>>    (seems like a discussion of policy.)
>     >         >     >>>    per the proposal and the points:
>     >         >     >>> * how much to discount for a one year pre-payment
>     >         seems
>     >         >     >>> the difficult part: too little and no one goes for
>     >         it;
>     >         >     >>> too big and we miss out on possible income; variable
>     >         >     >>> (maybe within some limits, hoping for generosity)
>     >         may
>     >         >     >>> work....
>     >         >     >>> * if we don't have a "real accounting system", as
>     >         long
>     >         >     >>> as we can track payments with respect to members,
>     >         this
>     >         >     >>> seems a non-issue. for example, i pay by the quarter
>     >         >     >>> and haven't had any problems. if a payment is
>     >         recorded
>     >         >     >>> as income for the current month, is there a tax
>     >         >     >>> implication?
>     >         >     >>> * we should certainly try to help our current cash
>     >         >     >>> crunch"; the overall downward trend scares me.
>     >         >     >>> * grabbing a year's supply of money may help the
>     >         >     >>> initially excited retain their interest over a
>     >         longer
>     >         >     >>> time period, which seems an additional value.
>     >         >     >>> * i'm not convinced of your arithmetic, but
>     >         certainly
>     >         >     >>> money today is worth a fair amount more than money
>     >         >     >>> some later day, especially if there's some question
>     >         >     >>> about getting money on those later days. a real
>     >         >     >>> answer to this might help settle the discount
>     >         problem.
>     >         >     >>>
>     >         >     >>>
>     >         >     >>>
>     >         >     >>>
>     >         >     >>> On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 09:49 -0700, Shannon Lee
>     >         wrote:
>     >         >     >>>> Hi All,
>     >         >     >>>> This idea has been brought up at several meetings
>     >         now and no
>     >         >     >>>> satisfactory resolution reached, so obviously it's
>     >         time to
>     >         >     expand the
>     >         >     >>>> conversation!
>     >         >     >>>> The specific proposal brought up last night was
>     >         this:
>     >         >     >>>> If you pay your dues a year at a time, you can
>     >         knock $20 off.
>     >         >     Or one
>     >         >     >>>> month's dues off. Or some amount of money.
>     >         >     >>>> Many perspectives were voiced on this.  I think
>     >         it's a good idea;
>     >         >     >>>> others disagreed, primarily because, as we do not
>     >         have a real
>     >         >     >>>> accounting system, this amounts to counting a
>     >         year's dues as this
>     >         >     >>>> month's revenue.
>     >         >     >>>> Again, I think this is a good idea, for the
>     >         following reasons:
>     >         >     >>>> * it could help with our current cash cruch
>     >         >     >>>> * it means that people who get very excited about
>     >         noisebridge
>     >         >     for just
>     >         >     >>>> long enough to be members and then never show up
>     >         again have the
>     >         >     >>>> opportunity to pay a whole year's membership
>     >         upfront
>     >         >     >>>> * the economic value of a bird in one's hand is
>     >         double that of
>     >         >     a bird
>     >         >     >>>> in a bush
>     >         >     >>>> Thoughts?
>     >         >     >>>> --
>     >         >     >>>> Shannon Lee
>     >         >     >>>> (503) 539-3700
>     >         >     >>>>
>     >         >     >>>> "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is
>     >         indistinguishable from
>     >         >     science."
>     >         >     >>>> _______________________________________________
>     >         >     >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>     >         >     >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>     <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>     >
>     >         >     <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>     <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>>
>     >         >     >>>>
>     >        
>     https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>     >         >     >>>
>     >         >     >>> _______________________________________________
>     >         >     >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>     >         >     >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>     <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>     >
>     >         >     <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>     <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>>
>     >         >     >>>
>     >        
>     https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>     >         >     >
>     >         >     >
>     >         >     _______________________________________________
>     >         >     Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>     >         >     Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>     <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>     >
>     >         >     <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>     <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>>
>     >
>     >         >
>     >        
>     https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>     >         >
>     >         >
>     >         _______________________________________________
>     >         Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>     >         Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>     <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>     >        
>     https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>     >
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>     > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>     <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>     > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> 
> 
> 



More information about the Noisebridge-discuss mailing list