[Noisebridge-discuss] Proposal: Discounted full-year dues
jim
jim at well.com
Wed Jun 16 22:14:19 UTC 2010
feature suggestion: maybe the tracking system can
reward for advance payments, per the 2% or such idea--
increase the discount according to how far ahead one
has paid.
feature deprecation: there's a downside to rewarding
advance payment in the case of members who stick around:
it's less money overall (shannon's observation re
members who might not stick around is a counterbalance).
On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 15:04 -0700, Rachel McConnell wrote:
> I think that ensuring that each member pays their dues, at least mostly,
> is the solution that will work for the entire group in the long run. I
> don't think people are consciously blowing us off, i think they simply
> forget, and then six months later they are like, oh, i paid ... a little
> while ago? I think? So I believe the first need is a system that
> tracks who has paid their dues and (ideally automatically) emails people
> with a reminder periodically until they have paid. After we do that we
> can see if we need to put in any kinds of discounts.
>
> (Leif, a percentage discount over a whole year, paid at once, is more
> money than N (<12) monthly payments and a big OOPS-I-FORGOT.)
>
> I've pinged Hackerdojo to ask about their system which Christie
> mentioned. I will volunteer to evaluate that, if possible, and report
> back. Will someone else evaluate Miah's suggestion of Salesforce, and
> maybe a third person evaluate the suggestion I also saw which was bottom
> posted, an hour or two ago?
>
> My take on the requirements for such a system are:
>
> * can track dues payments by member identifier (alias, email address,
> whatever anonymous key we want)
> * can automatically email those who are N days late
> * is easy for the treasurer to keep up to date
>
> Rachel
>
> aestetix aestetix wrote:
> > I don't think it's really fair to qualify whether a group is alive or
> > dead based on financial numbers. It's more of a mentality and motivation
> > of the people. If a group is in danger for whatever reason, be it
> > financial, political, or anything else, having a call to bring people
> > together to save the group proves that it's alive and well.
> >
> > It's just like my teacher used to say during the Iraq War debate: lots
> > of bickering about what should be done actually means there are a lot of
> > people who care. I think rather than fingerpointing and ensuring each
> > member pays their dues, we should band together, help each other out
> > where we can, and figure out a solution that works for the entire group
> > in the long term.
> >
> > aestetix
> >
> > PS: I am not a communist.
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 2:30 PM, jim <jim at well.com
> > <mailto:jim at well.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > there's a difference between dying and dead, too.
> > general rule of thumb is to have about six months
> > expenses in the bank and start panicking when it
> > gets down to three. time to panic, according to
> > the general rule.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 12:40 -0700, aestetix aestetix wrote:
> > > Are we actually in the red?
> > >
> > > There's a big difference between not having a few months wiggleroom,
> > > and having our checks bounce.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Rachel McConnell
> > <rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>>
> > > wrote:
> > > oooh I had no idea! yeah i'll get in touch with them right
> > > away. i did
> > > search various open source repos and found nothing useful...
> > >
> > > Christie Dudley wrote:
> > > > Katie from Hacker Dojo was mentioning they'd put together a
> > > complete
> > > > open source package for managing things, including payment
> > > tracking and
> > > > so forth that they're interested in sharing. It might not
> > > be a bad
> > > > idea, and foster a bit of goodwill if we at least had a look
> > > at that,
> > > > don't you think?
> > > >
> > > > The problem may already be solved for us.
> > > >
> > > > Christie
> > > > _______
> > > > "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from
> > > mediocrities.
> > > > The latter cannot understand it when a man does not
> > > thoughtlessly submit
> > > > to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses
> > > his
> > > > intelligence." -- Albert Einstein
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Rachel McConnell
> > > <rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > > <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>>>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It's all done by hand right now, there's no automation.
> > > I mean the bank
> > > > account (and paypal, etc) tracks that $X has shown up,
> > > but there isn't
> > > > any system to associate it with a particular member.
> > > Sometimes a
> > > > payment comes with a note; if it's a check you have to
> > > go look at the
> > > > name on the check, etc.
> > > >
> > > > jim wrote:
> > > > > Y'all have reminded me of payment, so there must
> > > > > be some tracking in place, yes?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 10:29 -0700, Rachel McConnell
> > > wrote:
> > > > >> I like this in theory but in practice it would be
> > > folly to officially
> > > > >> promote it until we have an accounting system that
> > > can support it.
> > > > >> Already we don't know who is paid up and who isn't;
> > > work is
> > > > underway on
> > > > >> a system to manage this but let's get it working
> > > first before we make
> > > > >> massive changes to it.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Rachel
> > > > >>
> > > > >> jim wrote:
> > > > >>> (seems like a discussion of policy.)
> > > > >>> per the proposal and the points:
> > > > >>> * how much to discount for a one year pre-payment
> > > seems
> > > > >>> the difficult part: too little and no one goes for
> > > it;
> > > > >>> too big and we miss out on possible income; variable
> > > > >>> (maybe within some limits, hoping for generosity)
> > > may
> > > > >>> work....
> > > > >>> * if we don't have a "real accounting system", as
> > > long
> > > > >>> as we can track payments with respect to members,
> > > this
> > > > >>> seems a non-issue. for example, i pay by the quarter
> > > > >>> and haven't had any problems. if a payment is
> > > recorded
> > > > >>> as income for the current month, is there a tax
> > > > >>> implication?
> > > > >>> * we should certainly try to help our current cash
> > > > >>> crunch"; the overall downward trend scares me.
> > > > >>> * grabbing a year's supply of money may help the
> > > > >>> initially excited retain their interest over a
> > > longer
> > > > >>> time period, which seems an additional value.
> > > > >>> * i'm not convinced of your arithmetic, but
> > > certainly
> > > > >>> money today is worth a fair amount more than money
> > > > >>> some later day, especially if there's some question
> > > > >>> about getting money on those later days. a real
> > > > >>> answer to this might help settle the discount
> > > problem.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 09:49 -0700, Shannon Lee
> > > wrote:
> > > > >>>> Hi All,
> > > > >>>> This idea has been brought up at several meetings
> > > now and no
> > > > >>>> satisfactory resolution reached, so obviously it's
> > > time to
> > > > expand the
> > > > >>>> conversation!
> > > > >>>> The specific proposal brought up last night was
> > > this:
> > > > >>>> If you pay your dues a year at a time, you can
> > > knock $20 off.
> > > > Or one
> > > > >>>> month's dues off. Or some amount of money.
> > > > >>>> Many perspectives were voiced on this. I think
> > > it's a good idea;
> > > > >>>> others disagreed, primarily because, as we do not
> > > have a real
> > > > >>>> accounting system, this amounts to counting a
> > > year's dues as this
> > > > >>>> month's revenue.
> > > > >>>> Again, I think this is a good idea, for the
> > > following reasons:
> > > > >>>> * it could help with our current cash cruch
> > > > >>>> * it means that people who get very excited about
> > > noisebridge
> > > > for just
> > > > >>>> long enough to be members and then never show up
> > > again have the
> > > > >>>> opportunity to pay a whole year's membership
> > > upfront
> > > > >>>> * the economic value of a bird in one's hand is
> > > double that of
> > > > a bird
> > > > >>>> in a bush
> > > > >>>> Thoughts?
> > > > >>>> --
> > > > >>>> Shannon Lee
> > > > >>>> (503) 539-3700
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is
> > > indistinguishable from
> > > > science."
> > > > >>>> _______________________________________________
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> > >
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> > >
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