[Noisebridge-discuss] Proposal: Discounted full-year dues

Christie Dudley longobord at gmail.com
Wed Jun 16 22:44:19 UTC 2010


Another question that is worth considering...

Does Noisebridge have any interest-bearing accounts?  If so, any interest we
earn on these accounts would easily offset discounts awarded for advance
payment.  If not... don't you think we should if we're keeping 3-6 months
operating expenses in the bank?

Christie
_______
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The
latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to
hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
-- Albert Einstein


On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:

>
>   feature suggestion: maybe the tracking system can
> reward for advance payments, per the 2% or such idea--
> increase the discount according to how far ahead one
> has paid.
>   feature deprecation: there's a downside to rewarding
> advance payment in the case of members who stick around:
> it's less money overall (shannon's observation re
> members who might not stick around is a counterbalance).
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 15:04 -0700, Rachel McConnell wrote:
> > I think that ensuring that each member pays their dues, at least mostly,
> > is the solution that will work for the entire group in the long run.  I
> > don't think people are consciously blowing us off, i think they simply
> > forget, and then six months later they are like, oh, i paid ... a little
> > while ago?  I think?  So I believe the first need is a system that
> > tracks who has paid their dues and (ideally automatically) emails people
> > with a reminder periodically until they have paid.  After we do that we
> > can see if we need to put in any kinds of discounts.
> >
> > (Leif, a percentage discount over a whole year, paid at once, is more
> > money than N (<12) monthly payments and a big OOPS-I-FORGOT.)
> >
> > I've pinged Hackerdojo to ask about their system which Christie
> > mentioned.  I will volunteer to evaluate that, if possible, and report
> > back.  Will someone else evaluate Miah's suggestion of Salesforce, and
> > maybe a third person evaluate the suggestion I also saw which was bottom
> > posted, an hour or two ago?
> >
> > My take on the requirements for such a system are:
> >
> > * can track dues payments by member identifier (alias, email address,
> > whatever anonymous key we want)
> > * can automatically email those who are N days late
> > * is easy for the treasurer to keep up to date
> >
> > Rachel
> >
> > aestetix aestetix wrote:
> > > I don't think it's really fair to qualify whether a group is alive or
> > > dead based on financial numbers. It's more of a mentality and
> motivation
> > > of the people. If a group is in danger for whatever reason, be it
> > > financial, political, or anything else, having a call to bring people
> > > together to save the group proves that it's alive and well.
> > >
> > > It's just like my teacher used to say during the Iraq War debate: lots
> > > of bickering about what should be done actually means there are a lot
> of
> > > people who care. I think rather than fingerpointing and ensuring each
> > > member pays their dues, we should band together, help each other out
> > > where we can, and figure out a solution that works for the entire group
> > > in the long term.
> > >
> > > aestetix
> > >
> > > PS: I am not a communist.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 2:30 PM, jim <jim at well.com
> > > <mailto:jim at well.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >     there's a difference between dying and dead, too.
> > >     general rule of thumb is to have about six months
> > >     expenses in the bank and start panicking when it
> > >     gets down to three. time to panic, according to
> > >     the general rule.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >     On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 12:40 -0700, aestetix aestetix wrote:
> > >     > Are we actually in the red?
> > >     >
> > >     > There's a big difference between not having a few months
> wiggleroom,
> > >     > and having our checks bounce.
> > >     >
> > >     > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Rachel McConnell
> > >     <rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>>
> > >     > wrote:
> > >     >         oooh I had no idea!  yeah i'll get in touch with them
> right
> > >     >         away.  i did
> > >     >         search various open source repos and found nothing
> useful...
> > >     >
> > >     >         Christie Dudley wrote:
> > >     >         > Katie from Hacker Dojo was mentioning they'd put
> together a
> > >     >         complete
> > >     >         > open source package for managing things, including
> payment
> > >     >         tracking and
> > >     >         > so forth that they're interested in sharing.  It might
> not
> > >     >         be a bad
> > >     >         > idea, and foster a bit of goodwill if we at least had a
> look
> > >     >         at that,
> > >     >         > don't you think?
> > >     >         >
> > >     >         > The problem may already be solved for us.
> > >     >         >
> > >     >         > Christie
> > >     >         > _______
> > >     >         > "Great spirits have always found violent opposition
> from
> > >     >         mediocrities.
> > >     >         > The latter cannot understand it when a man does not
> > >     >         thoughtlessly submit
> > >     >         > to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously
> uses
> > >     >         his
> > >     >         > intelligence." -- Albert Einstein
> > >     >         >
> > >     >         >
> > >     >         > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Rachel McConnell
> > >     >         <rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>
> > >     >
> > >     >
> > >     >         > <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>>>
> > >     wrote:
> > >     >         >
> > >     >         >     It's all done by hand right now, there's no
> automation.
> > >     >          I mean the bank
> > >     >         >     account (and paypal, etc) tracks that $X has shown
> up,
> > >     >         but there isn't
> > >     >         >     any system to associate it with a particular
> member.
> > >     >          Sometimes a
> > >     >         >     payment comes with a note; if it's a check you have
> to
> > >     >         go look at the
> > >     >         >     name on the check, etc.
> > >     >         >
> > >     >         >     jim wrote:
> > >     >         >     >    Y'all have reminded me of payment, so there
> must
> > >     >         >     > be some tracking in place, yes?
> > >     >         >     >
> > >     >         >     >
> > >     >         >     >
> > >     >         >     > On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 10:29 -0700, Rachel
> McConnell
> > >     >         wrote:
> > >     >         >     >> I like this in theory but in practice it would
> be
> > >     >         folly to officially
> > >     >         >     >> promote it until we have an accounting system
> that
> > >     >         can support it.
> > >     >         >     >> Already we don't know who is paid up and who
> isn't;
> > >     >         work is
> > >     >         >     underway on
> > >     >         >     >> a system to manage this but let's get it working
> > >     >         first before we make
> > >     >         >     >> massive changes to it.
> > >     >         >     >>
> > >     >         >     >> Rachel
> > >     >         >     >>
> > >     >         >     >> jim wrote:
> > >     >         >     >>>    (seems like a discussion of policy.)
> > >     >         >     >>>    per the proposal and the points:
> > >     >         >     >>> * how much to discount for a one year
> pre-payment
> > >     >         seems
> > >     >         >     >>> the difficult part: too little and no one goes
> for
> > >     >         it;
> > >     >         >     >>> too big and we miss out on possible income;
> variable
> > >     >         >     >>> (maybe within some limits, hoping for
> generosity)
> > >     >         may
> > >     >         >     >>> work....
> > >     >         >     >>> * if we don't have a "real accounting system",
> as
> > >     >         long
> > >     >         >     >>> as we can track payments with respect to
> members,
> > >     >         this
> > >     >         >     >>> seems a non-issue. for example, i pay by the
> quarter
> > >     >         >     >>> and haven't had any problems. if a payment is
> > >     >         recorded
> > >     >         >     >>> as income for the current month, is there a tax
> > >     >         >     >>> implication?
> > >     >         >     >>> * we should certainly try to help our current
> cash
> > >     >         >     >>> crunch"; the overall downward trend scares me.
> > >     >         >     >>> * grabbing a year's supply of money may help
> the
> > >     >         >     >>> initially excited retain their interest over a
> > >     >         longer
> > >     >         >     >>> time period, which seems an additional value.
> > >     >         >     >>> * i'm not convinced of your arithmetic, but
> > >     >         certainly
> > >     >         >     >>> money today is worth a fair amount more than
> money
> > >     >         >     >>> some later day, especially if there's some
> question
> > >     >         >     >>> about getting money on those later days. a real
> > >     >         >     >>> answer to this might help settle the discount
> > >     >         problem.
> > >     >         >     >>>
> > >     >         >     >>>
> > >     >         >     >>>
> > >     >         >     >>>
> > >     >         >     >>> On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 09:49 -0700, Shannon Lee
> > >     >         wrote:
> > >     >         >     >>>> Hi All,
> > >     >         >     >>>> This idea has been brought up at several
> meetings
> > >     >         now and no
> > >     >         >     >>>> satisfactory resolution reached, so obviously
> it's
> > >     >         time to
> > >     >         >     expand the
> > >     >         >     >>>> conversation!
> > >     >         >     >>>> The specific proposal brought up last night
> was
> > >     >         this:
> > >     >         >     >>>> If you pay your dues a year at a time, you can
> > >     >         knock $20 off.
> > >     >         >     Or one
> > >     >         >     >>>> month's dues off. Or some amount of money.
> > >     >         >     >>>> Many perspectives were voiced on this.  I
> think
> > >     >         it's a good idea;
> > >     >         >     >>>> others disagreed, primarily because, as we do
> not
> > >     >         have a real
> > >     >         >     >>>> accounting system, this amounts to counting a
> > >     >         year's dues as this
> > >     >         >     >>>> month's revenue.
> > >     >         >     >>>> Again, I think this is a good idea, for the
> > >     >         following reasons:
> > >     >         >     >>>> * it could help with our current cash cruch
> > >     >         >     >>>> * it means that people who get very excited
> about
> > >     >         noisebridge
> > >     >         >     for just
> > >     >         >     >>>> long enough to be members and then never show
> up
> > >     >         again have the
> > >     >         >     >>>> opportunity to pay a whole year's membership
> > >     >         upfront
> > >     >         >     >>>> * the economic value of a bird in one's hand
> is
> > >     >         double that of
> > >     >         >     a bird
> > >     >         >     >>>> in a bush
> > >     >         >     >>>> Thoughts?
> > >     >         >     >>>> --
> > >     >         >     >>>> Shannon Lee
> > >     >         >     >>>> (503) 539-3700
> > >     >         >     >>>>
> > >     >         >     >>>> "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is
> > >     >         indistinguishable from
> > >     >         >     science."
> > >     >         >     >>>>
> _______________________________________________
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> > >     >         >     <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
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> > >     >         >     >>>>
> > >     >
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> > >     >         >     >>>
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