[Noisebridge-discuss] Proposal: Discounted full-year dues
Christie Dudley
longobord at gmail.com
Wed Jun 16 22:44:19 UTC 2010
Another question that is worth considering...
Does Noisebridge have any interest-bearing accounts? If so, any interest we
earn on these accounts would easily offset discounts awarded for advance
payment. If not... don't you think we should if we're keeping 3-6 months
operating expenses in the bank?
Christie
_______
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The
latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to
hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
-- Albert Einstein
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
> feature suggestion: maybe the tracking system can
> reward for advance payments, per the 2% or such idea--
> increase the discount according to how far ahead one
> has paid.
> feature deprecation: there's a downside to rewarding
> advance payment in the case of members who stick around:
> it's less money overall (shannon's observation re
> members who might not stick around is a counterbalance).
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 15:04 -0700, Rachel McConnell wrote:
> > I think that ensuring that each member pays their dues, at least mostly,
> > is the solution that will work for the entire group in the long run. I
> > don't think people are consciously blowing us off, i think they simply
> > forget, and then six months later they are like, oh, i paid ... a little
> > while ago? I think? So I believe the first need is a system that
> > tracks who has paid their dues and (ideally automatically) emails people
> > with a reminder periodically until they have paid. After we do that we
> > can see if we need to put in any kinds of discounts.
> >
> > (Leif, a percentage discount over a whole year, paid at once, is more
> > money than N (<12) monthly payments and a big OOPS-I-FORGOT.)
> >
> > I've pinged Hackerdojo to ask about their system which Christie
> > mentioned. I will volunteer to evaluate that, if possible, and report
> > back. Will someone else evaluate Miah's suggestion of Salesforce, and
> > maybe a third person evaluate the suggestion I also saw which was bottom
> > posted, an hour or two ago?
> >
> > My take on the requirements for such a system are:
> >
> > * can track dues payments by member identifier (alias, email address,
> > whatever anonymous key we want)
> > * can automatically email those who are N days late
> > * is easy for the treasurer to keep up to date
> >
> > Rachel
> >
> > aestetix aestetix wrote:
> > > I don't think it's really fair to qualify whether a group is alive or
> > > dead based on financial numbers. It's more of a mentality and
> motivation
> > > of the people. If a group is in danger for whatever reason, be it
> > > financial, political, or anything else, having a call to bring people
> > > together to save the group proves that it's alive and well.
> > >
> > > It's just like my teacher used to say during the Iraq War debate: lots
> > > of bickering about what should be done actually means there are a lot
> of
> > > people who care. I think rather than fingerpointing and ensuring each
> > > member pays their dues, we should band together, help each other out
> > > where we can, and figure out a solution that works for the entire group
> > > in the long term.
> > >
> > > aestetix
> > >
> > > PS: I am not a communist.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 2:30 PM, jim <jim at well.com
> > > <mailto:jim at well.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > there's a difference between dying and dead, too.
> > > general rule of thumb is to have about six months
> > > expenses in the bank and start panicking when it
> > > gets down to three. time to panic, according to
> > > the general rule.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 12:40 -0700, aestetix aestetix wrote:
> > > > Are we actually in the red?
> > > >
> > > > There's a big difference between not having a few months
> wiggleroom,
> > > > and having our checks bounce.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Rachel McConnell
> > > <rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > oooh I had no idea! yeah i'll get in touch with them
> right
> > > > away. i did
> > > > search various open source repos and found nothing
> useful...
> > > >
> > > > Christie Dudley wrote:
> > > > > Katie from Hacker Dojo was mentioning they'd put
> together a
> > > > complete
> > > > > open source package for managing things, including
> payment
> > > > tracking and
> > > > > so forth that they're interested in sharing. It might
> not
> > > > be a bad
> > > > > idea, and foster a bit of goodwill if we at least had a
> look
> > > > at that,
> > > > > don't you think?
> > > > >
> > > > > The problem may already be solved for us.
> > > > >
> > > > > Christie
> > > > > _______
> > > > > "Great spirits have always found violent opposition
> from
> > > > mediocrities.
> > > > > The latter cannot understand it when a man does not
> > > > thoughtlessly submit
> > > > > to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously
> uses
> > > > his
> > > > > intelligence." -- Albert Einstein
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Rachel McConnell
> > > > <rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>>>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > It's all done by hand right now, there's no
> automation.
> > > > I mean the bank
> > > > > account (and paypal, etc) tracks that $X has shown
> up,
> > > > but there isn't
> > > > > any system to associate it with a particular
> member.
> > > > Sometimes a
> > > > > payment comes with a note; if it's a check you have
> to
> > > > go look at the
> > > > > name on the check, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > jim wrote:
> > > > > > Y'all have reminded me of payment, so there
> must
> > > > > > be some tracking in place, yes?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 10:29 -0700, Rachel
> McConnell
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> I like this in theory but in practice it would
> be
> > > > folly to officially
> > > > > >> promote it until we have an accounting system
> that
> > > > can support it.
> > > > > >> Already we don't know who is paid up and who
> isn't;
> > > > work is
> > > > > underway on
> > > > > >> a system to manage this but let's get it working
> > > > first before we make
> > > > > >> massive changes to it.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Rachel
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> jim wrote:
> > > > > >>> (seems like a discussion of policy.)
> > > > > >>> per the proposal and the points:
> > > > > >>> * how much to discount for a one year
> pre-payment
> > > > seems
> > > > > >>> the difficult part: too little and no one goes
> for
> > > > it;
> > > > > >>> too big and we miss out on possible income;
> variable
> > > > > >>> (maybe within some limits, hoping for
> generosity)
> > > > may
> > > > > >>> work....
> > > > > >>> * if we don't have a "real accounting system",
> as
> > > > long
> > > > > >>> as we can track payments with respect to
> members,
> > > > this
> > > > > >>> seems a non-issue. for example, i pay by the
> quarter
> > > > > >>> and haven't had any problems. if a payment is
> > > > recorded
> > > > > >>> as income for the current month, is there a tax
> > > > > >>> implication?
> > > > > >>> * we should certainly try to help our current
> cash
> > > > > >>> crunch"; the overall downward trend scares me.
> > > > > >>> * grabbing a year's supply of money may help
> the
> > > > > >>> initially excited retain their interest over a
> > > > longer
> > > > > >>> time period, which seems an additional value.
> > > > > >>> * i'm not convinced of your arithmetic, but
> > > > certainly
> > > > > >>> money today is worth a fair amount more than
> money
> > > > > >>> some later day, especially if there's some
> question
> > > > > >>> about getting money on those later days. a real
> > > > > >>> answer to this might help settle the discount
> > > > problem.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 09:49 -0700, Shannon Lee
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >>>> Hi All,
> > > > > >>>> This idea has been brought up at several
> meetings
> > > > now and no
> > > > > >>>> satisfactory resolution reached, so obviously
> it's
> > > > time to
> > > > > expand the
> > > > > >>>> conversation!
> > > > > >>>> The specific proposal brought up last night
> was
> > > > this:
> > > > > >>>> If you pay your dues a year at a time, you can
> > > > knock $20 off.
> > > > > Or one
> > > > > >>>> month's dues off. Or some amount of money.
> > > > > >>>> Many perspectives were voiced on this. I
> think
> > > > it's a good idea;
> > > > > >>>> others disagreed, primarily because, as we do
> not
> > > > have a real
> > > > > >>>> accounting system, this amounts to counting a
> > > > year's dues as this
> > > > > >>>> month's revenue.
> > > > > >>>> Again, I think this is a good idea, for the
> > > > following reasons:
> > > > > >>>> * it could help with our current cash cruch
> > > > > >>>> * it means that people who get very excited
> about
> > > > noisebridge
> > > > > for just
> > > > > >>>> long enough to be members and then never show
> up
> > > > again have the
> > > > > >>>> opportunity to pay a whole year's membership
> > > > upfront
> > > > > >>>> * the economic value of a bird in one's hand
> is
> > > > double that of
> > > > > a bird
> > > > > >>>> in a bush
> > > > > >>>> Thoughts?
> > > > > >>>> --
> > > > > >>>> Shannon Lee
> > > > > >>>> (503) 539-3700
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is
> > > > indistinguishable from
> > > > > science."
> > > > > >>>>
> _______________________________________________
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