[Noisebridge-discuss] Proposal: Discounted full-year dues
Sean Cusack
sean.p.cusack at gmail.com
Wed Jun 16 22:56:42 UTC 2010
Hey peeps -
This may be a stupid question, but is the problem that:
A) People are members, but not paying dues every month, or
B) There aren't enough members to support the monthly noisebridge expenses
Because if the answer is B, wouldn't paying for memberships up front not
really help the underlying problem that we are spending more than we're
bringing in? If the problem is A, then I like the propositions :).
Also, as a pusher of using our talents for the outside world as well, should
we consider doing some kind of fund-raiser to the external world a la
burning man camps? I don't know how well these do overall, but it may be a
good way to get a couple months of rent banked kind of quickly to get us
away from the crunch and back into the safe green zone. If someone has a
good idea and needs more manpower, I'd be thrilled to help out.
Sean
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 3:44 PM, Christie Dudley <longobord at gmail.com>wrote:
> Another question that is worth considering...
>
> Does Noisebridge have any interest-bearing accounts? If so, any interest
> we earn on these accounts would easily offset discounts awarded for advance
> payment. If not... don't you think we should if we're keeping 3-6 months
> operating expenses in the bank?
>
> Christie
> _______
> "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The
> latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to
> hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
> -- Albert Einstein
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> feature suggestion: maybe the tracking system can
>> reward for advance payments, per the 2% or such idea--
>> increase the discount according to how far ahead one
>> has paid.
>> feature deprecation: there's a downside to rewarding
>> advance payment in the case of members who stick around:
>> it's less money overall (shannon's observation re
>> members who might not stick around is a counterbalance).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 15:04 -0700, Rachel McConnell wrote:
>> > I think that ensuring that each member pays their dues, at least mostly,
>> > is the solution that will work for the entire group in the long run. I
>> > don't think people are consciously blowing us off, i think they simply
>> > forget, and then six months later they are like, oh, i paid ... a little
>> > while ago? I think? So I believe the first need is a system that
>> > tracks who has paid their dues and (ideally automatically) emails people
>> > with a reminder periodically until they have paid. After we do that we
>> > can see if we need to put in any kinds of discounts.
>> >
>> > (Leif, a percentage discount over a whole year, paid at once, is more
>> > money than N (<12) monthly payments and a big OOPS-I-FORGOT.)
>> >
>> > I've pinged Hackerdojo to ask about their system which Christie
>> > mentioned. I will volunteer to evaluate that, if possible, and report
>> > back. Will someone else evaluate Miah's suggestion of Salesforce, and
>> > maybe a third person evaluate the suggestion I also saw which was bottom
>> > posted, an hour or two ago?
>> >
>> > My take on the requirements for such a system are:
>> >
>> > * can track dues payments by member identifier (alias, email address,
>> > whatever anonymous key we want)
>> > * can automatically email those who are N days late
>> > * is easy for the treasurer to keep up to date
>> >
>> > Rachel
>> >
>> > aestetix aestetix wrote:
>> > > I don't think it's really fair to qualify whether a group is alive or
>> > > dead based on financial numbers. It's more of a mentality and
>> motivation
>> > > of the people. If a group is in danger for whatever reason, be it
>> > > financial, political, or anything else, having a call to bring people
>> > > together to save the group proves that it's alive and well.
>> > >
>> > > It's just like my teacher used to say during the Iraq War debate: lots
>> > > of bickering about what should be done actually means there are a lot
>> of
>> > > people who care. I think rather than fingerpointing and ensuring each
>> > > member pays their dues, we should band together, help each other out
>> > > where we can, and figure out a solution that works for the entire
>> group
>> > > in the long term.
>> > >
>> > > aestetix
>> > >
>> > > PS: I am not a communist.
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 2:30 PM, jim <jim at well.com
>> > > <mailto:jim at well.com>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > there's a difference between dying and dead, too.
>> > > general rule of thumb is to have about six months
>> > > expenses in the bank and start panicking when it
>> > > gets down to three. time to panic, according to
>> > > the general rule.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 12:40 -0700, aestetix aestetix wrote:
>> > > > Are we actually in the red?
>> > > >
>> > > > There's a big difference between not having a few months
>> wiggleroom,
>> > > > and having our checks bounce.
>> > > >
>> > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Rachel McConnell
>> > > <rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > oooh I had no idea! yeah i'll get in touch with them
>> right
>> > > > away. i did
>> > > > search various open source repos and found nothing
>> useful...
>> > > >
>> > > > Christie Dudley wrote:
>> > > > > Katie from Hacker Dojo was mentioning they'd put
>> together a
>> > > > complete
>> > > > > open source package for managing things, including
>> payment
>> > > > tracking and
>> > > > > so forth that they're interested in sharing. It might
>> not
>> > > > be a bad
>> > > > > idea, and foster a bit of goodwill if we at least had
>> a look
>> > > > at that,
>> > > > > don't you think?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > The problem may already be solved for us.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Christie
>> > > > > _______
>> > > > > "Great spirits have always found violent opposition
>> from
>> > > > mediocrities.
>> > > > > The latter cannot understand it when a man does not
>> > > > thoughtlessly submit
>> > > > > to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously
>> uses
>> > > > his
>> > > > > intelligence." -- Albert Einstein
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Rachel McConnell
>> > > > <rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com
>> >>>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > It's all done by hand right now, there's no
>> automation.
>> > > > I mean the bank
>> > > > > account (and paypal, etc) tracks that $X has shown
>> up,
>> > > > but there isn't
>> > > > > any system to associate it with a particular
>> member.
>> > > > Sometimes a
>> > > > > payment comes with a note; if it's a check you
>> have to
>> > > > go look at the
>> > > > > name on the check, etc.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > jim wrote:
>> > > > > > Y'all have reminded me of payment, so there
>> must
>> > > > > > be some tracking in place, yes?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 10:29 -0700, Rachel
>> McConnell
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >> I like this in theory but in practice it would
>> be
>> > > > folly to officially
>> > > > > >> promote it until we have an accounting system
>> that
>> > > > can support it.
>> > > > > >> Already we don't know who is paid up and who
>> isn't;
>> > > > work is
>> > > > > underway on
>> > > > > >> a system to manage this but let's get it
>> working
>> > > > first before we make
>> > > > > >> massive changes to it.
>> > > > > >>
>> > > > > >> Rachel
>> > > > > >>
>> > > > > >> jim wrote:
>> > > > > >>> (seems like a discussion of policy.)
>> > > > > >>> per the proposal and the points:
>> > > > > >>> * how much to discount for a one year
>> pre-payment
>> > > > seems
>> > > > > >>> the difficult part: too little and no one goes
>> for
>> > > > it;
>> > > > > >>> too big and we miss out on possible income;
>> variable
>> > > > > >>> (maybe within some limits, hoping for
>> generosity)
>> > > > may
>> > > > > >>> work....
>> > > > > >>> * if we don't have a "real accounting system",
>> as
>> > > > long
>> > > > > >>> as we can track payments with respect to
>> members,
>> > > > this
>> > > > > >>> seems a non-issue. for example, i pay by the
>> quarter
>> > > > > >>> and haven't had any problems. if a payment is
>> > > > recorded
>> > > > > >>> as income for the current month, is there a
>> tax
>> > > > > >>> implication?
>> > > > > >>> * we should certainly try to help our current
>> cash
>> > > > > >>> crunch"; the overall downward trend scares me.
>> > > > > >>> * grabbing a year's supply of money may help
>> the
>> > > > > >>> initially excited retain their interest over a
>> > > > longer
>> > > > > >>> time period, which seems an additional value.
>> > > > > >>> * i'm not convinced of your arithmetic, but
>> > > > certainly
>> > > > > >>> money today is worth a fair amount more than
>> money
>> > > > > >>> some later day, especially if there's some
>> question
>> > > > > >>> about getting money on those later days. a
>> real
>> > > > > >>> answer to this might help settle the discount
>> > > > problem.
>> > > > > >>>
>> > > > > >>>
>> > > > > >>>
>> > > > > >>>
>> > > > > >>> On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 09:49 -0700, Shannon Lee
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >>>> Hi All,
>> > > > > >>>> This idea has been brought up at several
>> meetings
>> > > > now and no
>> > > > > >>>> satisfactory resolution reached, so obviously
>> it's
>> > > > time to
>> > > > > expand the
>> > > > > >>>> conversation!
>> > > > > >>>> The specific proposal brought up last night
>> was
>> > > > this:
>> > > > > >>>> If you pay your dues a year at a time, you
>> can
>> > > > knock $20 off.
>> > > > > Or one
>> > > > > >>>> month's dues off. Or some amount of money.
>> > > > > >>>> Many perspectives were voiced on this. I
>> think
>> > > > it's a good idea;
>> > > > > >>>> others disagreed, primarily because, as we do
>> not
>> > > > have a real
>> > > > > >>>> accounting system, this amounts to counting a
>> > > > year's dues as this
>> > > > > >>>> month's revenue.
>> > > > > >>>> Again, I think this is a good idea, for the
>> > > > following reasons:
>> > > > > >>>> * it could help with our current cash cruch
>> > > > > >>>> * it means that people who get very excited
>> about
>> > > > noisebridge
>> > > > > for just
>> > > > > >>>> long enough to be members and then never show
>> up
>> > > > again have the
>> > > > > >>>> opportunity to pay a whole year's membership
>> > > > upfront
>> > > > > >>>> * the economic value of a bird in one's hand
>> is
>> > > > double that of
>> > > > > a bird
>> > > > > >>>> in a bush
>> > > > > >>>> Thoughts?
>> > > > > >>>> --
>> > > > > >>>> Shannon Lee
>> > > > > >>>> (503) 539-3700
>> > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > >>>> "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is
>> > > > indistinguishable from
>> > > > > science."
>> > > > > >>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> > > > > >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> > > > > >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
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>> > > >
>> > > > > <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > > <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>>
>> > > > > >>>>
>> > > >
>> > > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> > > > > >>>
>> > > > > >>>
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