[Noisebridge-discuss] Proposal: Discounted full-year dues
Miah Johnson
miah at chia-pet.org
Wed Jun 16 23:27:58 UTC 2010
I've never understood why Noisebridge just doesn't do a fundraiser every 6
months or so. Considering NB provides a location for many burners to work on
projects year-round I don't see it being a big deal to throw the party
during "theme camp fundraising season".
Additionally, when parties/events are thrown, or people are in town for <big
event> I don't think Noisebridge is doing enough to remind visitors that it
is funded by donations and membership dues. Do donations get any type of
useful data? How much does NB make in donations in <month>, or at <event>?
5mof tends to fill the house, does NB end up making any additional money?
-Miah
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Daniel C. Silverstein <
cubes at ghosthacked.net> wrote:
> Just as an FYI, I think the fundraiser idea is great, but it may not
> be the best timing. It's Burning Man theme camp fundraising season so
> you'll have a lot of competition for the next few months. Better to
> put it off until after the burn IMO.
>
> (Dan)
>
> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 3:56 PM, Sean Cusack <sean.p.cusack at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hey peeps -
> >
> > This may be a stupid question, but is the problem that:
> >
> > A) People are members, but not paying dues every month, or
> > B) There aren't enough members to support the monthly noisebridge
> expenses
> >
> > Because if the answer is B, wouldn't paying for memberships up front not
> > really help the underlying problem that we are spending more than we're
> > bringing in? If the problem is A, then I like the propositions :).
> >
> > Also, as a pusher of using our talents for the outside world as well,
> should
> > we consider doing some kind of fund-raiser to the external world a la
> > burning man camps? I don't know how well these do overall, but it may be
> a
> > good way to get a couple months of rent banked kind of quickly to get us
> > away from the crunch and back into the safe green zone. If someone has a
> > good idea and needs more manpower, I'd be thrilled to help out.
> >
> > Sean
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 3:44 PM, Christie Dudley <longobord at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Another question that is worth considering...
> >> Does Noisebridge have any interest-bearing accounts? If so, any
> interest
> >> we earn on these accounts would easily offset discounts awarded for
> advance
> >> payment. If not... don't you think we should if we're keeping 3-6
> months
> >> operating expenses in the bank?
> >> Christie
> >> _______
> >> "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities.
> The
> >> latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to
> >> hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his
> intelligence."
> >> -- Albert Einstein
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> feature suggestion: maybe the tracking system can
> >>> reward for advance payments, per the 2% or such idea--
> >>> increase the discount according to how far ahead one
> >>> has paid.
> >>> feature deprecation: there's a downside to rewarding
> >>> advance payment in the case of members who stick around:
> >>> it's less money overall (shannon's observation re
> >>> members who might not stick around is a counterbalance).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 15:04 -0700, Rachel McConnell wrote:
> >>> > I think that ensuring that each member pays their dues, at least
> >>> > mostly,
> >>> > is the solution that will work for the entire group in the long run.
> I
> >>> > don't think people are consciously blowing us off, i think they
> simply
> >>> > forget, and then six months later they are like, oh, i paid ... a
> >>> > little
> >>> > while ago? I think? So I believe the first need is a system that
> >>> > tracks who has paid their dues and (ideally automatically) emails
> >>> > people
> >>> > with a reminder periodically until they have paid. After we do that
> we
> >>> > can see if we need to put in any kinds of discounts.
> >>> >
> >>> > (Leif, a percentage discount over a whole year, paid at once, is more
> >>> > money than N (<12) monthly payments and a big OOPS-I-FORGOT.)
> >>> >
> >>> > I've pinged Hackerdojo to ask about their system which Christie
> >>> > mentioned. I will volunteer to evaluate that, if possible, and
> report
> >>> > back. Will someone else evaluate Miah's suggestion of Salesforce,
> and
> >>> > maybe a third person evaluate the suggestion I also saw which was
> >>> > bottom
> >>> > posted, an hour or two ago?
> >>> >
> >>> > My take on the requirements for such a system are:
> >>> >
> >>> > * can track dues payments by member identifier (alias, email address,
> >>> > whatever anonymous key we want)
> >>> > * can automatically email those who are N days late
> >>> > * is easy for the treasurer to keep up to date
> >>> >
> >>> > Rachel
> >>> >
> >>> > aestetix aestetix wrote:
> >>> > > I don't think it's really fair to qualify whether a group is alive
> or
> >>> > > dead based on financial numbers. It's more of a mentality and
> >>> > > motivation
> >>> > > of the people. If a group is in danger for whatever reason, be it
> >>> > > financial, political, or anything else, having a call to bring
> people
> >>> > > together to save the group proves that it's alive and well.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > It's just like my teacher used to say during the Iraq War debate:
> >>> > > lots
> >>> > > of bickering about what should be done actually means there are a
> lot
> >>> > > of
> >>> > > people who care. I think rather than fingerpointing and ensuring
> each
> >>> > > member pays their dues, we should band together, help each other
> out
> >>> > > where we can, and figure out a solution that works for the entire
> >>> > > group
> >>> > > in the long term.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > aestetix
> >>> > >
> >>> > > PS: I am not a communist.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 2:30 PM, jim <jim at well.com
> >>> > > <mailto:jim at well.com>> wrote:
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > there's a difference between dying and dead, too.
> >>> > > general rule of thumb is to have about six months
> >>> > > expenses in the bank and start panicking when it
> >>> > > gets down to three. time to panic, according to
> >>> > > the general rule.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 12:40 -0700, aestetix aestetix wrote:
> >>> > > > Are we actually in the red?
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > There's a big difference between not having a few months
> >>> > > wiggleroom,
> >>> > > > and having our checks bounce.
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Rachel McConnell
> >>> > > <rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>>
> >>> > > > wrote:
> >>> > > > oooh I had no idea! yeah i'll get in touch with them
> >>> > > right
> >>> > > > away. i did
> >>> > > > search various open source repos and found nothing
> >>> > > useful...
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > Christie Dudley wrote:
> >>> > > > > Katie from Hacker Dojo was mentioning they'd put
> >>> > > together a
> >>> > > > complete
> >>> > > > > open source package for managing things, including
> >>> > > payment
> >>> > > > tracking and
> >>> > > > > so forth that they're interested in sharing. It
> >>> > > might not
> >>> > > > be a bad
> >>> > > > > idea, and foster a bit of goodwill if we at least
> had
> >>> > > a look
> >>> > > > at that,
> >>> > > > > don't you think?
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > The problem may already be solved for us.
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > Christie
> >>> > > > > _______
> >>> > > > > "Great spirits have always found violent opposition
> >>> > > from
> >>> > > > mediocrities.
> >>> > > > > The latter cannot understand it when a man does not
> >>> > > > thoughtlessly submit
> >>> > > > > to hereditary prejudices but honestly and
> >>> > > courageously uses
> >>> > > > his
> >>> > > > > intelligence." -- Albert Einstein
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Rachel McConnell
> >>> > > > <rachel at xtreme.com <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > > <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com
> >>> > > <mailto:rachel at xtreme.com>>>
> >>> > > wrote:
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > It's all done by hand right now, there's no
> >>> > > automation.
> >>> > > > I mean the bank
> >>> > > > > account (and paypal, etc) tracks that $X has
> >>> > > shown up,
> >>> > > > but there isn't
> >>> > > > > any system to associate it with a particular
> >>> > > member.
> >>> > > > Sometimes a
> >>> > > > > payment comes with a note; if it's a check you
> >>> > > have to
> >>> > > > go look at the
> >>> > > > > name on the check, etc.
> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > > > jim wrote:
> >>> > > > > > Y'all have reminded me of payment, so
> there
> >>> > > must
> >>> > > > > > be some tracking in place, yes?
> >>> > > > > >
> >>> > > > > >
> >>> > > > > >
> >>> > > > > > On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 10:29 -0700, Rachel
> >>> > > McConnell
> >>> > > > wrote:
> >>> > > > > >> I like this in theory but in practice it
> would
> >>> > > be
> >>> > > > folly to officially
> >>> > > > > >> promote it until we have an accounting
> system
> >>> > > that
> >>> > > > can support it.
> >>> > > > > >> Already we don't know who is paid up and who
> >>> > > isn't;
> >>> > > > work is
> >>> > > > > underway on
> >>> > > > > >> a system to manage this but let's get it
> >>> > > working
> >>> > > > first before we make
> >>> > > > > >> massive changes to it.
> >>> > > > > >>
> >>> > > > > >> Rachel
> >>> > > > > >>
> >>> > > > > >> jim wrote:
> >>> > > > > >>> (seems like a discussion of policy.)
> >>> > > > > >>> per the proposal and the points:
> >>> > > > > >>> * how much to discount for a one year
> >>> > > pre-payment
> >>> > > > seems
> >>> > > > > >>> the difficult part: too little and no one
> >>> > > goes for
> >>> > > > it;
> >>> > > > > >>> too big and we miss out on possible income;
> >>> > > variable
> >>> > > > > >>> (maybe within some limits, hoping for
> >>> > > generosity)
> >>> > > > may
> >>> > > > > >>> work....
> >>> > > > > >>> * if we don't have a "real accounting
> >>> > > system", as
> >>> > > > long
> >>> > > > > >>> as we can track payments with respect to
> >>> > > members,
> >>> > > > this
> >>> > > > > >>> seems a non-issue. for example, i pay by
> the
> >>> > > quarter
> >>> > > > > >>> and haven't had any problems. if a payment
> is
> >>> > > > recorded
> >>> > > > > >>> as income for the current month, is there a
> >>> > > tax
> >>> > > > > >>> implication?
> >>> > > > > >>> * we should certainly try to help our
> current
> >>> > > cash
> >>> > > > > >>> crunch"; the overall downward trend scares
> >>> > > me.
> >>> > > > > >>> * grabbing a year's supply of money may
> help
> >>> > > the
> >>> > > > > >>> initially excited retain their interest
> over
> >>> > > a
> >>> > > > longer
> >>> > > > > >>> time period, which seems an additional
> value.
> >>> > > > > >>> * i'm not convinced of your arithmetic, but
> >>> > > > certainly
> >>> > > > > >>> money today is worth a fair amount more
> than
> >>> > > money
> >>> > > > > >>> some later day, especially if there's some
> >>> > > question
> >>> > > > > >>> about getting money on those later days. a
> >>> > > real
> >>> > > > > >>> answer to this might help settle the
> discount
> >>> > > > problem.
> >>> > > > > >>>
> >>> > > > > >>>
> >>> > > > > >>>
> >>> > > > > >>>
> >>> > > > > >>> On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 09:49 -0700, Shannon
> >>> > > Lee
> >>> > > > wrote:
> >>> > > > > >>>> Hi All,
> >>> > > > > >>>> This idea has been brought up at several
> >>> > > meetings
> >>> > > > now and no
> >>> > > > > >>>> satisfactory resolution reached, so
> >>> > > obviously it's
> >>> > > > time to
> >>> > > > > expand the
> >>> > > > > >>>> conversation!
> >>> > > > > >>>> The specific proposal brought up last
> night
> >>> > > was
> >>> > > > this:
> >>> > > > > >>>> If you pay your dues a year at a time, you
> >>> > > can
> >>> > > > knock $20 off.
> >>> > > > > Or one
> >>> > > > > >>>> month's dues off. Or some amount of money.
> >>> > > > > >>>> Many perspectives were voiced on this. I
> >>> > > think
> >>> > > > it's a good idea;
> >>> > > > > >>>> others disagreed, primarily because, as we
> >>> > > do not
> >>> > > > have a real
> >>> > > > > >>>> accounting system, this amounts to
> counting
> >>> > > a
> >>> > > > year's dues as this
> >>> > > > > >>>> month's revenue.
> >>> > > > > >>>> Again, I think this is a good idea, for
> the
> >>> > > > following reasons:
> >>> > > > > >>>> * it could help with our current cash
> cruch
> >>> > > > > >>>> * it means that people who get very
> excited
> >>> > > about
> >>> > > > noisebridge
> >>> > > > > for just
> >>> > > > > >>>> long enough to be members and then never
> >>> > > show up
> >>> > > > again have the
> >>> > > > > >>>> opportunity to pay a whole year's
> membership
> >>> > > > upfront
> >>> > > > > >>>> * the economic value of a bird in one's
> hand
> >>> > > is
> >>> > > > double that of
> >>> > > > > a bird
> >>> > > > > >>>> in a bush
> >>> > > > > >>>> Thoughts?
> >>> > > > > >>>> --
> >>> > > > > >>>> Shannon Lee
> >>> > > > > >>>> (503) 539-3700
> >>> > > > > >>>>
> >>> > > > > >>>> "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is
> >>> > > > indistinguishable from
> >>> > > > > science."
> >>> > > > > >>>>
> >>> > > _______________________________________________
> >>> > > > > >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>> > > > > >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>> > > <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > > <mailto:
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>> > > <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>>
> >>> > > > > >>>>
> >>> > > >
> >>> > >
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>> > > > > >>>
> >>> > > > > >>>
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> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > > <mailto:
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>> > > <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>>
> >>> > > > > >>>
> >>> > > >
> >>> > >
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
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> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>> > > <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>>
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> >>> > > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > >
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
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> >>> > > >
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> >>> > >
> >>> >
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